Discussion:
new member says hi RE: A SONG OF LIFE ANDDEATH (and 6' sans).
(too old to reply)
Michael Barclay
2004-08-24 17:08:45 UTC
Permalink
hermand Norma- They are Dracaenaceae TODAY. I don't like it either. Agavaceae made the most sense and we
could have made it through last century as Liliaceae. Taxonomists are monocots-at least their brains are!
Luv


----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com;***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/23/2004 8:07:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] new member says hi RE: A SONG OF LIFE ANDDEATH (and 6' sans).


At 05:03 PM 8/23/04, Norma Lewis wrote:


Well love of my life,

What genua, genus are Sansevieria, as long as we are on the subject? I thought now that they are Dreceana?


This does not sit well with me, but it is hard for me to say why, exactly. maybe it is because some Dracaenas were put into Pleomele.
Maybe they should be in Sansevieriaceae, and have the rest of the world revolve around them. Why do they get crammed in pre-existing Genera, huh? (Bronx cheer)




hermine


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Norma Lewis
2004-08-24 17:54:00 UTC
Permalink
What the change based on. The flowers. The leaves, DNA

I need a lesson for today, Michael, how do I know if it a monacote when I have a plant in front on me. I have a vine out in front of me, or I think it is a vine, no tendrils. Grows more or less like a hoya.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Barclay
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] new member says hi RE: A SONG OF LIFE ANDDEATH (and 6' sans).


hermand Norma- They are Dracaenaceae TODAY. I don't like it either. Agavaceae made the most sense and we
could have made it through last century as Liliaceae. Taxonomists are monocots-at least their brains are!
Luv


----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com;***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/23/2004 8:07:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] new member says hi RE: A SONG OF LIFE ANDDEATH (and 6' sans).


At 05:03 PM 8/23/04, Norma Lewis wrote:


Well love of my life,

What genua, genus are Sansevieria, as long as we are on the subject? I thought now that they are Dreceana?


This does not sit well with me, but it is hard for me to say why, exactly. maybe it is because some Dracaenas were put into Pleomele.
Maybe they should be in Sansevieriaceae, and have the rest of the world revolve around them. Why do they get crammed in pre-existing Genera, huh? (Bronx cheer)




hermine


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hermine
2004-08-24 20:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Lewis
What the change based on. The flowers. The leaves, DNA
I need a lesson for today, Michael, how do I know if it a monacote when
I have a plant in front on me. I have a vine out in front of me, or I
think it is a vine, no tendrils. Grows more or less like a hoya.
Monocots have parallel veins in their leaves. Dicots have netted veins.

hermine
Lynn R. Brecka
2004-08-24 21:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by hermine
Monocots have parallel veins in their leaves. Dicots have netted veins.
true. Corn=monocot. Bean=Dicot. kewl...learn something new everyday!
even at my venerable old age...
lilies, orchids, agaves, palms, grasses=monocot.
-LYNN




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Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 00:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Michael, Hermine, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, thank you , no one ever offered that information. Didn't even know where to look it up. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] new member says hi RE: A SONG OF LIFE ANDDEATH (and 6' sans).


At 10:54 AM 8/24/04, Norma Lewis wrote:


What the change based on. The flowers. The leaves, DNA

I need a lesson for today, Michael, how do I know if it a monacote when I have a plant in front on me. I have a vine out in front of me, or I think it is a vine, no tendrils. Grows more or less like a hoya.


Monocots have parallel veins in their leaves. Dicots have netted veins.

hermine


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K J Gray
2004-08-24 18:04:15 UTC
Permalink
snip
They are Dracaenaceae TODAY. I don't like it either. Agavaceae made the
most sense and we could have made it through last century as Liliaceae.
Taxonomists are monocots-at least their brains are
snip

It sure can get frustrating, can't it, for the humble hobbyist to keep track
these days ? At least this post solves a problem I've been having, trying
to find out what family Sans truly belong to. I've been trying to find out
what families a number of plants in a collection I know belong to.

The research is for a plant care paper I'm trying to put together for a
condo my friend lives in. They have a fabulous indoor pool deck with the
beginnings of a nice varied collection of plants, but they need basic info
on what they have and proper care of same. They have super conditions but
nothing about plant care is very well organized. Needless to say, virtually
everything in the place is infested by some sort of plant vampire.

I was inspired to offer my 'expertise' after seeing two clumps of Sans
languishing there, hopelessly overpotted, among other crimes, but I wasn't
expecting that just trying to determine what family they belong to would be
such a pain. I do want this paper to sound like I have at least some clue
what I'm talking about, after all :). Just on a personal note, Sans
flowers I've had the pleasure to sniff smelled like lilies, but I don't
suppose taxonomists take things like scent into account :) !

I was also most interested in the comment on certain clones of Sans being
used to make rope. Oddly enough, in the course of my Googling around looking
at plant families, I saw a reference to Sans being called Indian Hemp, and
was trying to find out if Sans were actually being used for their fibres. No
info on Sans fibre that I could find, but plenty on the more classical Hemp
plant, including the one some folks like to smoke. Is there a site that
deals with Sans fibre ?

Sorry this rambled on, I'll try to keep 'em shorter and more on point in
future.

Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-24 19:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hempKaren, in the real old days, they were used to make bow strings. May have been as fiber to sew up pelts for clothing, Agave were used by the Indians in Mexico for needles and the thread was already attached. I'm sure if we do more research I think we would find more uses for the hemp that came out of the leaves. Certain ones can be used for food, you try it first. (the tubers were used) I think it was S Masonii was mentioned in the article that I used. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


snip

They are Dracaenaceae TODAY. I don't like it either. Agavaceae made the most sense and we could have made it through last century as Liliaceae. Taxonomists are monocots-at least their brains are
snip

It sure can get frustrating, can't it, for the humble hobbyist to keep track these days ? At least this post solves a problem I've been having, trying to find out what family Sans truly belong to. I've been trying to find out what families a number of plants in a collection I know belong to.

The research is for a plant care paper I'm trying to put together for a condo my friend lives in. They have a fabulous indoor pool deck with the beginnings of a nice varied collection of plants, but they need basic info on what they have and proper care of same. They have super conditions but nothing about plant care is very well organized. Needless to say, virtually everything in the place is infested by some sort of plant vampire.

I was inspired to offer my 'expertise' after seeing two clumps of Sans languishing there, hopelessly overpotted, among other crimes, but I wasn't expecting that just trying to determine what family they belong to would be such a pain. I do want this paper to sound like I have at least some clue what I'm talking about, after all :). Just on a personal note, Sans flowers I've had the pleasure to sniff smelled like lilies, but I don't suppose taxonomists take things like scent into account :) !

I was also most interested in the comment on certain clones of Sans being used to make rope. Oddly enough, in the course of my Googling around looking at plant families, I saw a reference to Sans being called Indian Hemp, and was trying to find out if Sans were actually being used for their fibres. No info on Sans fibre that I could find, but plenty on the more classical Hemp plant, including the one some folks like to smoke. Is there a site that deals with Sans fibre ?

Sorry this rambled on, I'll try to keep 'em shorter and more on point in future.

Karen


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Michael Barclay
2004-08-25 04:38:21 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: Norma Lewis
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/24/2004 12:24:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


Karen, in the real old days, they were used to make bow strings. May have been as fiber to sew up pelts for clothing, Agave were used by the Indians in Mexico for needles and the thread was already attached. I'm sure if we do more research I think we would find more uses for the hemp that came out of the leaves. Certain ones can be used for food, you try it first. (the tubers were used) I think it was S Masonii was mentioned in the article that I used. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


snip

They are Dracaenaceae TODAY. I don't like it either. Agavaceae made the most sense and we could have made it through last century as Liliaceae. Taxonomists are monocots-at least their brains are
snip

It sure can get frustrating, can't it, for the humble hobbyist to keep track these days ? At least this post solves a problem I've been having, trying to find out what family Sans truly belong to. I've been trying to find out what families a number of plants in a collection I know belong to.

The research is for a plant care paper I'm trying to put together for a condo my friend lives in. They have a fabulous indoor pool deck with the beginnings of a nice varied collection of plants, but they need basic info on what they have and proper care of same. They have super conditions but nothing about plant care is very well organized. Needless to say, virtually everything in the place is infested by some sort of plant vampire.

I was inspired to offer my 'expertise' after seeing two clumps of Sans languishing there, hopelessly overpotted, among other crimes, but I wasn't expecting that just trying to determine what family they belong to would be such a pain. I do want this paper to sound like I have at least some clue what I'm talking about, after all :). Just on a personal note, Sans flowers I've had the pleasure to sniff smelled like lilies, but I don't suppose taxonomists take things like scent into account :) ! YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT!!!

I was also most interested in the comment on certain clones of Sans being used to make rope. Oddly enough, in the course of my Googling around looking at plant families, I saw a reference to Sans being called Indian Hemp, and was trying to find out if Sans were actually being used for their fibres. No info on Sans fibre that I could find, but plenty on the more classical Hemp plant, including the one some folks like to smoke. Is there a site that deals with Sans fibre ?

Sorry this rambled on, I'll try to keep 'em shorter and more on point in future.

Karen
Karen- I believe I have an article on the Floridian experiment which was simply abandoned. "Bow string hemp" means
just what it sounds like. Bows for stringed instruments were made from sans fibers.
MDB

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K J Gray
2004-08-25 14:59:13 UTC
Permalink
snip
Karen- I believe I have an article on the Floridian experiment
which was simply abandoned. "Bow string hemp" means
just what it sounds like. Bows for stringed instruments were made from sans
fibers.
MDB
snip

Don't suppose there's any chance I might be able to read the article ? When
bows were mentioned, I must confess, my first thought was a bow string of
the sort that shoots arrows! Weren't musical bows traditionally made from
horsehair? Being completely mad about horses, I think a vegetable
substitute a most excellent idea. In any case, the more things I learn.. the
better I like it !!!

Thanks for the info !

Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 15:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hempI think string of guts, were used for mucical instruments. These fibers in the San. were used of native Africans for their bows which they killed beast or other humans. Often with poinen on the tips of the arrows. Karen you are right (bow string of the sort that shoots arrows)
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


snip

Karen- I believe I have an article on the Floridian experiment which was simply abandoned. "Bow string hemp" means
just what it sounds like. Bows for stringed instruments were made from sans fibers.
MDB
snip

Don't suppose there's any chance I might be able to read the article ? When bows were mentioned, I must confess, my first thought was a bow string of the sort that shoots arrows! Weren't musical bows traditionally made from horsehair? Being completely mad about horses, I think a vegetable substitute a most excellent idea. In any case, the more things I learn.. the better I like it !!!

Thanks for the info !

Karen





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K J Gray
2004-08-25 17:21:49 UTC
Permalink
on 8/25/04 11:26 AM, Norma Lewis at ***@adelphia.net wrote:

I think string of guts, were used for mucical instruments. These fibers in
the San. were used of native Africans for their bows which they killed
beast or other humans. Often with poinen on the tips of the arrows. Karen
you are right (bow string of the sort that shoots arrows)


I think you're quite right, they did use gut to string some instruments,
like guitars, wonder if it's now been replaced by some sort of plastic ?
They also used to use gut to make surgical sutures. I believe they called it
catgut, but it came from the innards of meat animals.

Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to
properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ? Currently they
are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's
watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container. Also, are
there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?

Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what type
of mix they like best, ie; really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or one
with a good organic content as well? [I hope this isn't the dire question
it can be on some other lists :) !! ]

Thanks, Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 21:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hempI would guess at least a 5-10 gallon wide and low continer, made out of cement. LOL Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


on 8/25/04 11:26 AM, Norma Lewis at ***@adelphia.net wrote:


I think string of guts, were used for mucical instruments. These fibers in the San. were used of native Africans for their bows which they killed beast or other humans. Often with poinen on the tips of the arrows. Karen you are right (bow string of the sort that shoots arrows)

a..
b..
c.. I think you're quite right, they did use gut to string some instruments, like guitars, wonder if it's now been replaced by some sort of plastic ? They also used to use gut to make surgical sutures. I believe they called it catgut, but it came from the innards of meat animals.
d..
e.. Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ? Currently they are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container. Also, are there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?
f..
g.. Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what type of mix they like best, ie; really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or one with a good organic content as well? [I hope this isn't the dire question it can be on some other lists :) !! ]
h..
i.. Thanks, Karen






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K J Gray
2004-08-25 22:11:55 UTC
Permalink
snip
I would guess at least a 5-10 gallon wide and low continer, made out of
cement. LOL Norma
snip
Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to
properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ?  Currently they
are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's
watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container.   Also, are
there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?  
Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what
type of mix they like best, ie;  really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or
one with a good organic content as well?  [I hope this isn't the dire
question it can be on some other lists :) !! ]
snip

Thanks Norma, but I was hoping for some sort of measurement... and I'd still
like to know about potting mix for Sans. Seems to be a big topic no matter
what plant one is growing, and since my experience with the plants is
limited, I'd appreciate some clues about what you folks prefer to use to
grow your Sans.

Regards, Karen
hermine
2004-08-25 22:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by K J Gray
Thanks Norma, but I was hoping for some sort of measurement... and I'd
still like to know about potting mix for Sans. Seems to be a big topic no
matter what plant one is growing, and since my experience with the plants
is limited, I'd appreciate some clues about what you folks prefer to use
to grow your Sans.
Regards, Karen
I grow them mostly in left over potting mix from other plants, and
incorporate something for toothy drainage like crushed gravel or decomposed
granite, DG at the masonry yards. i have grown them VERY WELL in almost
pure adobe, also tree Euphorbias, to great height and health in this material.

if a pot is filled with some kind of MUCK where there is really no
drainage, and i do have some bamboo in this, it just happened, that is not
good. hard to get it wet enough, and it tends to drain by making a hole
down to a drainage opening, from which the muck itself drains, leaving
diminished soil volume.

What do you mean when you say the soil stays wet too long? WHAT are the
symptoms of bad plant health?

hermine
K J Gray
2004-08-25 22:46:23 UTC
Permalink
snip

What do you mean when you say the soil stays wet too long? WHAT are the
symptoms of bad plant health?

snip

I mean that there are only a few crowns with only a few leaves each, stuck
in an enormous container that is over a foot deep, and at least two feet
across. These Sans live on a indoor pool deck and the folks taking care of
them don't really know what they are doing. When they water these Sans, they
give too much, and there isn't enough plant material to use it all up fast
enough, so the roots are wet to damp all the time. Because of the indoor
pool, the air is always pretty humid, so there isn't much evaporation of
water from soil mix either. The plants are dull colored, very little color
banding is visible, and the leaves are mostly leaning or bent right over and
there is no sign of any new growth despite it being summertime still. They
aren't actually rotting yet, but they are heading that way. They don't get
sufficient light either, and I hope to get them moved to a brighter spot,
but more light alone won't fix the problem of being overpotted and
overwatered. Sorry if I've confused anybody :).

Thanks, Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 23:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]Karen they love to be crowded. Don't start them off in large containers with only a few 6 heads, they would do much better in small container which you gradually pot up to a larger container. I start my new offset into rose pots if they will fit, or up in size to match the plant. Try to give them gradually more light so they will grow more ridged, and you will see the beauty of each species, when too green they all look alike. They won't be as lanky then. They will not offset until well rooted, and crowded. They like to touch the bottom then come up, or touch the sides then come up, or crawl out of the bottom holes. Karen, you can't confuse this bunch, they are mostly experts/ professioinals here, not including me. I'm learning from them, even if I have to squeese the information out of them. So ask, they will figure it out, cut down on the water until you see new growth of a leaf. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]


snip

What do you mean when you say the soil stays wet too long? WHAT are the symptoms of bad plant health?

snip

I mean that there are only a few crowns with only a few leaves each, stuck in an enormous container that is over a foot deep, and at least two feet across. These Sans live on a indoor pool deck and the folks taking care of them don't really know what they are doing. When they water these Sans, they give too much, and there isn't enough plant material to use it all up fast enough, so the roots are wet to damp all the time. Because of the indoor pool, the air is always pretty humid, so there isn't much evaporation of water from soil mix either. The plants are dull colored, very little color banding is visible, and the leaves are mostly leaning or bent right over and there is no sign of any new growth despite it being summertime still. They aren't actually rotting yet, but they are heading that way. They don't get sufficient light either, and I hope to get them moved to a brighter spot, but more light alone won't fix the problem of being overpotted and overwatered. Sorry if I've confused anybody :).

Thanks, Karen






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Russ
2004-08-26 04:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly. Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out when it's watered.
From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots. Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ
hermine
2004-08-26 04:30:46 UTC
Permalink
In Boston i used something called turface, which is really calcined clay
kitty litter, the kind without any deodorants or other fancy stuff.

i used this to make a soil mix for South African and Madagascan succulents,
cacti and the like, it worked very well. if i did not get small bags of
kitty litter, i used turface because it came in huge bags, but it is the
same thing.

hermine
Norma Lewis
2004-08-26 15:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]Russ, Pine bark is excellant. I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw. It worked for them. At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to flower.
So we never need to take up more room per plant. When they start to rise up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot. We don't want them to get big and massive. We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need to for us, and it save a lot of space.
Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound. What I do at home I have them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the rest are brought to a meeting and sold. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly. Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out when it's watered.

From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots. Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ




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K J Gray
2004-08-26 19:24:52 UTC
Permalink
Hey, that's all great advice, from all of you ! Shame on me for not
indicating where I live. Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, [just outside
Toronto.] Zone 6a climate, according to Agriculture Canada's zone map, and
I've a southwest facing balcony outside my tenth floor apartment, as well as
some south windows and a west facing one.

Back when I lived in a house with a yard, I used to make up my own mixes all
the time, kept huge barrels of perlite, vermiculite, peat, etc. on hand
always. I learned then that the bags of sand you get at the local building
centre are no use for ammending potting mixes.

snip
The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and
deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd
go try to find.
snip

That gives me an excellent idea of what to look for in a new pot. The new
one will undoubtedly be plastic, as it's easiest to care for the condo
people, but I'll make sure it's sized properly and has drainage. With a good
mix in the pot, the humidity that slows down evaporation won't be so much of
a problem, and I'll get it moved over closer to the windows so the plants
get some decent levels of light.

I'm afraid that I'm something of a perfectionist, which can be a blessing,
more often a bit of a curse :). So I'm always interested in the details. If
I owned the plants in question, I'd not be so concerned, but because they
belong to someone else, I wanted to make sure I had the best advice possible
to avoid potential mistakes.

A clinic I attend moved to a new location, which turned out to be next door
to an enormous stone & gravel supplier, so I now can get bags of very coarse
sand, pea gravel, and quarter inch chip, which is chopped stone that'll
pass a quarter inch screen, [not limestone], for extremely low prices, like
$3.75 for a 60 pound sack. I've got some of each, and am looking forward to
concocting better mixes for my own plants as they get potted on.

I usually start with bagged soiless mixes, professional ones if I can find
them or with coir, which I greatly prefer to peat. Unfortunately, coir
based soiless mixes don't seem to be available here, though I hear they are
some places in the US. Guess our peat industry won't be happy until they've
scoured out every bog on the continent, and I suspect they are the reason
coir is not well known here. [ Is it hard to tell I'm not in favor of my own
country's peat industry :) ?]

I'm confident now I'll be able to make up a mix that will suit the unhappy
Sans on the pool deck far better than what they have now.

And you'll not be scaring me off this project, never fear ! Nor am I
confounded about the various potential ingredients for potting mixes, though
I was when I first began to be interested in growing succulents. I belong
to other groups like this, and as Russ observed, soil mixes are so often
discussed, sometimes 'till you could just scream :) , but it was important
to me to make sure I was getting advice for what best suits Sans in
particular. I rather like mixing up various ingredients to see how they'll
work out, but I've only a small number of plants, so it's not the big deal
it would be for people who have hundreds and thousands to care for.

And Hermine, I've used Turface, mainly for bonsai, but I no longer have a
convenient source for it. I was surprised to hear it was being sold as
chicken grit, so I think I may look up the nearest feed store and see what
they're selling for the chickens gizzards. Seems to me there was something
about chicken grit in one of my cactus club newsletters, but I didn't pay
attention at the time.
snip
We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground
pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn
about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
snip

Anyway, thank you Russ, Hermine and Norma, and everyone else for your very
kind advice, and I'll keep you posted on how the poor old pool deck Sans
project works out !

Warm regards, Karen
hermine
2004-08-26 20:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
snip
Anyway, thank you Russ, Hermine and Norma, and everyone else for your very
kind advice, and I'll keep you posted on how the poor old pool deck Sans
project works out !
Warm regards, Karen
CHICKEN GRIT! i gotta get me some of that! i bet that would be great!
anything which is not an agricultural specialty is bound to be cheaper!

herm
Michael LaForest
2004-08-26 08:32:00 UTC
Permalink
All chicken grit is not created equal. Some of it is ground oyster shells.
It is all high in calcium and my chemistry is not good enough to know what
effect it might have on the chemistry of your potting mix. The grit is used
by the chicken gizzard to help digest food, and aids in the formation of
tough egg shells. It is certainly cheep (a little ha ha there). Joe knows
I know about chickens. Leave the chicken grit to the birds.

And Karen, do you remember me talking to you earlier this year when I
learned you were from Mississauga, Ontario, and my grandmother being from
Holland Landing? Welcome to this most diverse and weird discussion group!
Mike

From: hermine <***@endangeredspecies.com>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:11:39 -0700
To: ***@yahoogroups.com,<***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas



CHICKEN GRIT! i gotta get me some of that! i bet that would be great!
anything which is not an agricultural specialty is bound to be cheaper!

herm
Russ
2004-08-26 22:11:45 UTC
Permalink
chicken grit not created equalYes, they do crunch up oyster shells for chicken grit, they also use crushed granite, which now that I think of
it might be an OK additive for plants. I don't think the Turface type product is widely used as a substitute
for chicken grit, but that's where I found my first bag of it. Turface actually came from the sports industry as a
soil conditioner for baseball infields. Commercial agriculture folks picked up on it and it's widely used now in the
horticultural nursery trade. It's probably a pretty inert product, not high in anything, and I recommend
it if you can find it, and don't think it's too expensive.

Wish we could get away with the oyster shell stuff, probably would be cheaper.
Russ
K J Gray
2004-08-27 00:57:22 UTC
Permalink
snip
And Karen, do you remember me talking to you earlier this year when I
learned you were from Mississauga, Ontario, and my grandmother being from
Holland Landing? Welcome to this most diverse and weird discussion group!
Mike
snip

I'm afraid I don't remember that, but then, my memory leaves heaps to be
desired. But it sure is getting to be a small world, isn't it ? I have
fond memories of Holland Landing, which isn't all that far north of here. If
you aren't into short tales from the past that aren't plant related, quit
reading here!

Back in those days I had horses, and I used to buy big crates of carrots
from one of the farms in Holland Landing, as they were dirt cheap and then
we'd have them all summer and most of the winter for treats and something
fresh 'n crunchy to go with the hay. At the time, I had a snow white horse
who would pretty much lie down and die for just a stub of a carrot.. thanks
to the steady supply I was able to teach him a few silly tricks. One was
taking a bow, which was quite hard for him to learn, really, it's not a
movement a horse would make on his own as a rule. When the day finally
came that he got the whole trick dead right, I was so pleased with him, I
gave him about five pounds of carrots as a reward and we quit working on
that high note. The next day when I walked into the barn, the moment he
laid eyes on me he started to bow repeatedly, still in his stall ! Worst of
it was, I couldn't reward him for the impromptu performance, 'cause the last
thing anyone needs is a horse who bows down whenever he's got a yen for a
carrot. Sure wish I'd had a video camera back then.

Anyway, thanks for the welcome. The group may be a little weird buit if I'm
honest, I think I'm probably a bit weird too, so it all ought to work out
fine.

Best regards, Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 23:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]Hi all,
They will grow in anything that you provide for them. We grow ours in a 15 gal, container and that was too small. I would think a cement horse trough would work, with drainage holes. I don't believe they are particular to what kind of soil, I know they would come up in clay. It wouldn't slow them down that much. I don't think they would like wet soil around the base of the plant, they need soil that will dry off.
I Just looked at the Masonii each has about 4-5 leaves, that are well developed. One of them is much more dark green, but cream is showing up more as the leaves get older. The other is quite cream throughout, with some green vertical bands. Neither has reverted yet. they only get low light and morning sun, perhaps I should put them on the other side of the green house. Do the varigates need more sun than the rest?
I'm thinking about your container, I think it should be wider and flater than the height, because the new stolens will come up faster for you, I am serious about an old fashioned British trough made of cement. John Gamesby please explain for Karen, and they do well in our fast draining mixture of 60% pumice, 20%coarse washed construction sand, 20% red wood forest bark, shredded, and this will depend where you live. They love Florida and Hawaii, the temps are great for them there, and they get natural rain water. But we do fertilize weekly in the warm season when they are growing and flowering, unless you have a greenhouse that you can keep no lower than 55F For cold weather hints, check with the British Nat. Colletiion, Allan Buttler or John Gamesby, Al Lauis.
Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] transplanting Sans [ was bowstring hemp etc.]



snip

I would guess at least a 5-10 gallon wide and low continer, made out of cement. LOL Norma
snip
Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ? Currently they are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container. Also, are there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?
Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what type of mix they like best, ie; really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or one with a good organic content as well? [I hope this isn't the dire question it can be on some other lists :) !! ]
snip

Thanks Norma, but I was hoping for some sort of measurement... and I'd still like to know about potting mix for Sans. Seems to be a big topic no matter what plant one is growing, and since my experience with the plants is limited, I'd appreciate some clues about what you folks prefer to use to grow your Sans.

Regards, Karen


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hermine
2004-08-25 22:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Lewis
I would guess at least a 5-10 gallon wide and low continer, made out of
cement. LOL Norma
I use shallow fifteens, but i had great results growing in my other
greenhouse in a raised bed. important to make the shallow heavy plant
stable with a deep mulch of crushed rock and gravel.

pots with the proportions of an azalea pot are good too.

and let us not forget the moss basket.

hermine
K J Gray
2004-08-25 22:35:27 UTC
Permalink
snip
I use shallow fifteens, but i had great results growing in my other
greenhouse in a raised bed. important to make the shallow heavy plant stable
with a deep mulch of crushed rock and gravel.

pots with the proportions of an azalea pot are good too, and let us not
forget the moss basket.
snip

They have to be in containers as these plants will be living on an indoor
pool deck, but I can top them off with rocks to help balance them. If I used
a finer gravel, like maybe pea gravel, how careful must I be about keeping
it away from the crowns of the Sans ? I know with lots of plants, if you
mulch with anything and let it pile up around or over the crowns or stems,
in this case leaves, it can promote rotting as it keeps water too long too
closely to these areas.

I don't think I've ever seen a pot labeled with a measurement of volume..
or maybe I just haven't had any reason to look before. Usually they just
give the diameter of the container, up to about 24 inches or so. After that,
they tend not to have any measurements. I'd just like to have an idea how
deep it can safely be, as I don't want to have to fill up several inches of
waste space underneath the potting mix with rocks or anything else, if it
can be avoided.

Hope this makes my questions clearer. Karen
John Gamesby
2004-08-26 09:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hempHi Everyone,
Could you please use measurements for your pots as in the rest of the world a half gallon or gallon pot or planter means nothing we use pot diameters as a guide like 10" or 25cm.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


snip
I use shallow fifteens, but i had great results growing in my other greenhouse in a raised bed. important to make the shallow heavy plant stable with a deep mulch of crushed rock and gravel.

pots with the proportions of an azalea pot are good too, and let us not forget the moss basket.
snip

They have to be in containers as these plants will be living on an indoor pool deck, but I can top them off with rocks to help balance them. If I used a finer gravel, like maybe pea gravel, how careful must I be about keeping it away from the crowns of the Sans ? I know with lots of plants, if you mulch with anything and let it pile up around or over the crowns or stems, in this case leaves, it can promote rotting as it keeps water too long too closely to these areas.

I don't think I've ever seen a pot labeled with a measurement of volume.. or maybe I just haven't had any reason to look before. Usually they just give the diameter of the container, up to about 24 inches or so. After that, they tend not to have any measurements. I'd just like to have an idea how deep it can safely be, as I don't want to have to fill up several inches of waste space underneath the potting mix with rocks or anything else, if it can be avoided.

Hope this makes my questions clearer. Karen




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Norma Lewis
2004-08-26 00:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi gang, I hopping on the end of this post because I'm too lazy to go back. Russ, read my post again, I did not say that it was traced all the way back to Africa, we do know that it is an African plant, I want to find out what nation, or was it an early hybrid of Johnson, or Hummel? we still don't know who introduced it. I will go back and check any records that I can get hold of. Hermine, could it have been introduced in the CSSA Journal, I do have the past 50 years of them. Where else could it have been published. There is not mention in NE Brown 1915, What about IPNI inquiries? Is there such a thing for Sansevieria? John Trager will be able to help me on this I have to do it on my own, but need clues. I would like to find out where Manny got his, then I can go back from there. Artie Chavez worked for Manny, he may remember. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


At 02:45 PM 8/25/04, Norma Lewis wrote:


I would guess at least a 5-10 gallon wide and low continer, made out of cement. LOL Norma



I use shallow fifteens, but i had great results growing in my other greenhouse in a raised bed. important to make the shallow heavy plant stable with a deep mulch of crushed rock and gravel.

pots with the proportions of an azalea pot are good too.

and let us not forget the moss basket.

hermine


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hermine
2004-08-25 16:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Lewis
Weren't musical bows traditionally made from horsehair? Being
completely mad about horses, I think a vegetable substitute a most
excellent idea. In any case, the more things I learn.. the better I like
it !!!
Thanks for the info !
Karen
I think it is used to make rope of all sorts, as well as strings for bows.
Now, according to a well known violinist, they do not have to kill the
horse to get the horse tail hair for actual bows. I also understand the
wood for bows is now on the endangered species list and there is a great
huge and cry among the violist community over this, but my personal violin
buddy uses a bow made of carbon fiber, the same as is used in golf club
shafts.

hermine
K J Gray
2004-08-25 17:08:52 UTC
Permalink
I think it is used to make rope of all sorts, as well as strings for bows.
Now, according to a well known violinist, they do not have to kill the horse
to get the horse tail hair for actual bows. I also understand the wood for
bows is now on the endangered species list and there is a great huge and cry
among the violist community over this, but my personal violin buddy uses a
bow made of carbon fiber, the same as is used in golf club shafts.


While it's true you can get the tail hairs from a living horse, the sad fact
is, most of it comes from animals slaughtered for meat. It's very popular in
some parts of Europe. Ugh.

Didn't know they made violins from carbon fibre.. bet there's a big
controversy over traditional vs. 'newfangled technology' among afficonadoes.

Do you know, did they use any and all Sans for making rope etc., or was it
some specific species? Be very interesting to see the process used to
extract the fibres.

Karen
hermine
2004-08-25 17:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by K J Gray
While it's true you can get the tail hairs from a living horse, the sad
fact is, most of it comes from animals slaughtered for meat. It's very
popular in some parts of Europe. Ugh.
Yes my mother vomited in France over a menu. it would be like ordering
beef in India.
Post by K J Gray
* Didn't know they made violins from carbon fibre.. bet there's a big
controversy over traditional vs. 'newfangled technology' among afficonadoes.
well, the modern violin is newfangled.
Post by K J Gray
* Do you know, did they use any and all Sans for making rope etc., or
was it some specific species? Be very interesting to see the process
used to extract the fibres.
* Karen
i have a bunch of plants which were used for fiber in Africa, they are
wiggly semi cylindrical things, and i tell you, when a leaf is dried out,
it is almost impossible to cut with pruning shears, it is like LUMBER.

such plants were called FEMALE plants, because they were so useful.

hermine
Post by K J Gray
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Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 21:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Chico Marks is another man who sung this song in the Mark's Brother's Pictures. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] bow string hemp


While it's true you can get the tail hairs from a living horse, the sad fact is, most of it comes from animals slaughtered for meat. It's very popular in some parts of Europe. Ugh.


Yes my mother vomited in France over a menu. it would be like ordering beef in India.


a.. Didn't know they made violins from carbon fibre.. bet there's a big controversy over traditional vs. 'newfangled technology' among afficonadoes.


well, the modern violin is newfangled.


a.. Do you know, did they use any and all Sans for making rope etc., or was it some specific species? Be very interesting to see the process used to extract the fibres.
b.. Karen


i have a bunch of plants which were used for fiber in Africa, they are wiggly semi cylindrical things, and i tell you, when a leaf is dried out, it is almost impossible to cut with pruning shears, it is like LUMBER.

such plants were called FEMALE plants, because they were so useful.

hermine






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Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 17:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Hermine, I was talking of bows and arrows, that was used in Africa for hunting. Damn English language. What will the British say to all of this John Gamesby?
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


Weren't musical bows traditionally made from horsehair? Being completely mad about horses, I think a vegetable substitute a most excellent idea. In any case, the more things I learn.. the better I like it !!!


Thanks for the info !


Karen


I think it is used to make rope of all sorts, as well as strings for bows.
Now, according to a well known violinist, they do not have to kill the horse to get the horse tail hair for actual bows. I also understand the wood for bows is now on the endangered species list and there is a great huge and cry among the violist community over this, but my personal violin buddy uses a bow made of carbon fiber, the same as is used in golf club shafts.

hermine

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John Gamesby
2004-08-25 20:39:34 UTC
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Alo Alo My little Cherub.
No on speaks English as incorrectly as the English. It seems to change like the wind. Hence all the new words in the dictionary like mingin (MING IN) that is one of the latest slang words to get into the dictionary. means bad, nasty, horrible.
Who cares as long as we can understand each other.
Yes I have a variegated masoniana and oh it is so slow. I am going to re pot it into a much bigger pot and start feeding it more. It does produce a new leaf now and then and they start out looking ordinary thwn they start to gat a paler mid stripe which broadens as the leaf gets bigger. The variegation grows with the leaf.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Norma Lewis
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


Hermine, I was talking of bows and arrows, that was used in Africa for hunting. Damn English language. What will the British say to all of this John Gamesby?
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


Weren't musical bows traditionally made from horsehair? Being completely mad about horses, I think a vegetable substitute a most excellent idea. In any case, the more things I learn.. the better I like it !!!


Thanks for the info !


Karen


I think it is used to make rope of all sorts, as well as strings for bows.
Now, according to a well known violinist, they do not have to kill the horse to get the horse tail hair for actual bows. I also understand the wood for bows is now on the endangered species list and there is a great huge and cry among the violist community over this, but my personal violin buddy uses a bow made of carbon fiber, the same as is used in golf club shafts.

hermine

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Michael Barclay
2004-08-25 20:26:20 UTC
Permalink
Karen and Norma- I never even considered "bow" as bow and arrows. You are probably both right.
Real "catgut" was used in surgery-internal stitches-through the 1950's. It came from cats! My mother almost
died from "catgut" stiches after a hystorectomy in 1954-she was violently allergic to cats.

Today various synthetics are used in medicine, music and hunting but a Kenyan stringed
instrument player in 1972 told Carol and me that sansevieria strings were the most expensive and the most
durable---and wind players still make reeds out of reeds (the vegetable kind), Arundo donax
Luv,


----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/25/2004 10:22:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


on 8/25/04 11:26 AM, Norma Lewis at ***@adelphia.net wrote:


I think string of guts, were used for mucical instruments. These fibers in the San. were used of native Africans for their bows which they killed beast or other humans. Often with poinen on the tips of the arrows. Karen you are right (bow string of the sort that shoots arrows)



I think you're quite right, they did use gut to string some instruments, like guitars, wonder if it's now been replaced by some sort of plastic ? They also used to use gut to make surgical sutures. I believe they called it catgut, but it came from the innards of meat animals.

Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ? Currently they are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container. Also, are there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?

Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what type of mix they like best, ie; really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or one with a good organic content as well? [I hope this isn't the dire question it can be on some other lists :) !! ]

Thanks, Karen






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Norma Lewis
2004-08-25 21:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Barclay
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


Karen and Norma- I never even considered "bow" as bow and arrows. You are probably both right.
Real "catgut" was used in surgery-internal stitches-through the 1950's. It came from cats! My mother almost
died from "catgut" stiches after a hystorectomy in 1954-she was violently allergic to cats.

Today various synthetics are used in medicine, music and hunting but a Kenyan stringed
instrument player in 1972 told Carol and me that sansevieria strings were the most expensive and the most
durable---and wind players still make reeds out of reeds (the vegetable kind), Arundo donax
Luv,


----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/25/2004 10:22:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] taxonomy and bow string hemp


on 8/25/04 11:26 AM, Norma Lewis at ***@adelphia.net wrote:


I think string of guts, were used for mucical instruments. These fibers in the San. were used of native Africans for their bows which they killed beast or other humans. Often with poinen on the tips of the arrows. Karen you are right (bow string of the sort that shoots arrows)

a..
b..
c.. I think you're quite right, they did use gut to string some instruments, like guitars, wonder if it's now been replaced by some sort of plastic ? They also used to use gut to make surgical sutures. I believe they called it catgut, but it came from the innards of meat animals.
d..
e.. Can anyone tell me what the maximum depth of a container should be to properly grow a large number of S. Trifasciata together ? Currently they are in a tub over a foot deep, which stays wet far too long when it's watered, but I'm not sure how shallow to go for a new container. Also, are there any good rules for what sort of mix to use?
f..
g.. Good drainage obviously is needed, but is there any concensus on what type of mix they like best, ie; really gritty and open, mostly mineral, or one with a good organic content as well? [I hope this isn't the dire question it can be on some other lists :) !! ]
h..
i.. Thanks, Karen






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Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 16:07:49 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover from what I use on my bromeliads.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>joe flaherty</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR></FONT>"Norma Lewis" &lt;***@adelphia.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></P><ZETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2743.600" name="GENERATOR">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Russ, Pine bark is excellant.&nbsp; I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw.&nbsp; It worked for them.&nbsp; At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to flower.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So we never need to take up more room per plant.&nbsp; When they start to rise up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot.&nbsp; We don't want them to get big and massive.&nbsp; We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need to for us, and it save a lot of space.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound.&nbsp; What I do at home I have them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the rest are brought to a meeting and sold.&nbsp; Norma </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=***@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:***@cfl.rr.com">Russ</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=***@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:***@yahoogroups.com">***@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>and tip </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot.&nbsp; I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I&nbsp;can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Sometimes rolling </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil&nbsp;so you can get the plants loose and out of it.&nbsp; If</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess.&nbsp; Once</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you have all the plants out,&nbsp;gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves.&nbsp; You may have to try working the rhizomes together in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space.&nbsp; The idea here is to figure out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have.&nbsp; Then</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be&nbsp;more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>deep.&nbsp; You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you wish.&nbsp; Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones.&nbsp; You can put some pea</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it.&nbsp; It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>at the bottom.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Soil mix.&nbsp; I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>access to pumice.&nbsp; I've only seen it once.&nbsp; You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>to make it drain well.&nbsp; Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>a wetting agent.<FONT size=+0>&nbsp; I don't use any stuff sold by the pound.&nbsp; This will be usually&nbsp;just dirt sold under the false name </FONT><FONT size=+0>of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling </FONT>a hole in the yard.&nbsp; I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc.&nbsp; Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap.&nbsp; You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>If the pot you've selected is not glazed, </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly.&nbsp; Glazed may be better </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it.&nbsp; If it's neglected </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go.&nbsp; If you don't put gravel </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>coming out when it's watered.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots.&nbsp; Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>not leaving any gaps without mix.&nbsp; You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be.&nbsp; It's not good to </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>them should not be something to keep you up at night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>pea gravel, etc.&nbsp; But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store.&nbsp; The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>be OK, but </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>not necessary in my humble opinion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Let us know how you come out on this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Best, Russ</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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hermine
2004-08-26 16:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Flaherty
Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?
Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting
soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just
leftover from what I use on my bromeliads.
joe flaherty
decomposing wood uses up nitrogen.

I observe many Sansevierias grown in the most sparse and drainy mixes,
instead of something which looks like earth. like Lithops kind of soil.

they could use a bit more earth.

hermine
hermine
2004-08-26 18:03:50 UTC
Permalink
When I finally got around to repotting one of my OLD s. t.
Laurentiis last summer, the pot was so full of roots, there was no
soil that I could find in it at all. How do these plants go on
living at all like that??
Marcy
well, whatever causes erosion, which is watering, will eventually wash away
the stuff which washes away, and in huge landscape boxes, this can leave
surface roots exposed. i have to top up such landscape containers, where
plants may be grown for YEARS, on a regular basis.

plants which are not cranking out large fruits, for example, really do not
need that much to EAT and desert plants in particular are not hogs.
still, a bit of nourishment is required from time to time, but if i had to
make a mistake, i would much rather underfeed than overfeed such plants.

i also have plants in trays of pumice for YEARS.

hermine
Marcy
2004-08-26 17:29:19 UTC
Permalink
When I was last out at Grigsby's, I asked Rita (I think that was her
name) what they used as mix because when I repotted some of the
former bunch it seemed they were grown in pure stones. She said they
use half pumice stone (little white rocks) and half "Super Soil" (a
potting mix found readly and cheaply at Home Depots and Lowes around
here.) She said as time goes along, the soil gets washed out & only
the pumice remains so one must either repot or add soil to the top
occationally.
When I finally got around to repotting one of my OLD s. t.
Laurentiis last summer, the pot was so full of roots, there was no
soil that I could find in it at all. How do these plants go on
living at all like that??
Marcy
Post by hermine
I observe many Sansevierias grown in the most sparse and drainy mixes,
instead of something which looks like earth. like Lithops kind of soil.
they could use a bit more earth.
hermine
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Russ
2004-08-26 18:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Norma, personally I use some other stuff in my Sans soil mixes, but I think most people, especially novice growers,
appreciate suggesting materials they can easily get. And lets face it, our Sans will do OK in an endless variety of
materials.

I'm experimenting with the calcined clay product Turface as an additive. A large grain, not the small fine stuff.
It does not seem to be the same as cat litter, which will go to mush if you leave it for a time in water. It's harder
and much more durable than litter. It does absorb some water, and releases it as the organic material around it
dries out. But it is essentially an aggregate. I use a lot of perlite in my mix, and for the organic additive I have used either finely ground bark, Canadian peat moss, or one of the professional grade peat mixes such as Fafard #3.
All these are very similar made by various companies, as long as it says the word 'professional' on the bag. It's
available in big bags at any Home Depot, Lowe's, KMart or Target garden area. A wetting agent is also added, and
this material does retain water longer than ground bark or straight Canadian peat, so you have to increase the amount
of aggregate accordingly for Sans. The wetting agent only lasts about 6 months or so, thereafter it acts like
a regular peat/fine bark mix. The bark added is usually described on the bag as 'a forest product'. In small pots
of 3 to 4 inches, you can use this stuff straight if you want, this small amount dries fast enough. I'd rather see
the addition of coarse perlite or other aggregate for large pots.

The finely ground bark that I use is a nursery product, and looks as if it's been composted for a time. So
it doesn't seem to be a nitrogen stealer like freshly ground bark would. I first found my first Turface type stuff
in a feed store being sold as chicken grit. Since then I found it at a nursery supply place about 30 minutes from
the house. I've seen it once in an Ace Hardware store. A bit hard to find. I'd use pumice if I could get it.

All you old timers here that already know this stuff, bear with me a bit since there are lots of folks here that
are trying to learn about soil mixes and basic knowledge that we take for granted. I think it's a good idea to
present this info once in awhile, many newbies here may be not be inclined to let us know that they don't know the
difference between perlite and a white rock. Every one of us were there once.

Best to everyone,
Russ
hermine
2004-08-26 18:05:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
Norma, personally I use some other stuff in my Sans soil mixes, but I
think most people, especially novice growers,
appreciate suggesting materials they can easily get. And lets face it,
our Sans will do OK in an endless variety of
materials.
I'm experimenting with the calcined clay product Turface as an
additive. A large grain, not the small fine stuff.
It does not seem to be the same as cat litter, which will go to mush if
you leave it for a time in water. It's harder
and much more durable than litter.
AH! in the old days, they really made durable cat litter, which never
turned to mush, it was essentially the same as Turface. i suppose there are
designer cat litter brands around. I was using cat litter circa 1975 and
thereabouts. eventually i used the Turface i was buying at the agriculture
place, instead of kitty litter.

hermine
Michael LaForest
2004-08-26 06:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Turface was actually developed for use on skinned baseball infields to help
prevent compaction; it is also a water absorption agent to help get rid of
standing rain water on infields. It is a calcined (heated) clay product
and used by the bagfulls around the bases.

I bought a couple bags several years ago at a landscape kind of store (it is
too specialized a product to be found at a Walmart), but did not consider it
worthy of the phrase, "money well spent".

I later went to "brick dust" which, while it certainly contains some fine
dust, is actually brick slivers about the size of a pencil eraser, more and
less. I bought this by the pick-up truck load (maybe 1/8 full) at a local
brickyard. It is very heavy stuff! I feel this product makes an excellent
soil amendment for any succulent potting mix. Unlike perlite, which is
excellent, brick chips do not come to the surface and float - looking
unsightly in the pot. On the downside, brick chips are not found
everywhere.
Mike

From: "Russ" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:11:48 -0400
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients, Norma


I'm experimenting with the calcined clay product Turface as an additive. A
large grain, not the small fine stuff.
It does not seem to be the same as cat litter, which will go to mush if you
leave it for a time in water. It's harder
and much more durable than litter. It does absorb some water, and releases
it as the organic material around it
dries out. But it is essentially an aggregate. I use a lot of perlite in
my mix, and for the organic additive I have used either finely ground bark,
Canadian peat moss, or one of the professional grade peat mixes such as
Fafard #3.
All these are very similar made by various companies, as long as it says the
word 'professional' on the bag. It's
available in big bags at any Home Depot, Lowe's, KMart or Target garden
area. A wetting agent is also added, and
this material does retain water longer than ground bark or straight Canadian
peat, so you have to increase the amount
of aggregate accordingly for Sans. The wetting agent only lasts about 6
months or so, thereafter it acts like
a regular peat/fine bark mix. The bark added is usually described on the
bag as 'a forest product'. In small pots
of 3 to 4 inches, you can use this stuff straight if you want, this small
amount dries fast enough. I'd rather see
the addition of coarse perlite or other aggregate for large pots.
hermine
2004-08-26 20:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael LaForest
Turface was actually developed for use on skinned baseball infields to
help prevent compaction; it is also a water absorption agent to help get
rid of standing rain water on infields. It is a calcined (heated) clay
product and used by the bagfulls around the bases.
It is handy if you (L-rd forbid) have a car which leaks oil on the garage
floor. it soaks it up so you can commence degreasing more easilly.
Post by Michael LaForest
I bought a couple bags several years ago at a landscape kind of store (it
is too specialized a product to be found at a Walmart), but did not
consider it worthy of the phrase, "money well spent".
Honest, 30 years ago it was cheap and made a dandy soil ammendment~!
Post by Michael LaForest
I later went to "brick dust" which, while it certainly contains some fine
dust, is actually brick slivers about the size of a pencil eraser, more
and less. I bought this by the pick-up truck load (maybe 1/8 full) at a
local brickyard. It is very heavy stuff! I feel this product makes an
excellent soil amendment for any succulent potting mix. Unlike perlite,
which is excellent, brick chips do not come to the surface and float -
looking unsightly in the pot. On the downside, brick chips are not found
everywhere.
back when i did not need massive soil by the truckload, i used to pulverize
bricks by driving over them between several sheets of plywood. driving
over things to flatten them was part of an art form i was involved in at
the time, and the bricks came naturally. also the colour is more pleasing
in a soil mix.

herm
Russ
2004-08-26 22:21:30 UTC
Permalink
TurfaceMike, that 'brick dust' sounds great. Was this available in Tennessee, or someplace else?
I'd like to find a couple of tons of that.
Yes, I think the Turface is a bit expensive, and I'm always looking for a cheaper replacement.
Russ
Michael LaForest
2004-08-26 10:23:31 UTC
Permalink
I went to our local brickyard here in K'ville called General Shale. They
make brick as in house brick. I gave them $16 and they said a guy would
meet me and my pickup truck at the brick dust pile. I have a 3/4 ton
truck and it went down fast! The next load I get I will take to a car wash,
spread the brick in the truck bed and use a clean water rinse to get rid of
the dust. The things I do for these dang plants!

If someone insists on trying chicken grit go to a farmer's coop / supply
store, NOT a pet store! It's less than $3 for a 25# bag for petes sake.
Again, I do NOT advocate using this product. Also, oyster shells have much
salt in them!
Mike

From: "Russ" <***@cfl.rr.com>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:21:30 -0400
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Turface


Mike, that 'brick dust' sounds great. Was this available in Tennessee, or
someplace else?
I'd like to find a couple of tons of that.
Yes, I think the Turface is a bit expensive, and I'm always looking for a
cheaper replacement.
Russ


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Russ
2004-08-27 01:02:44 UTC
Permalink
TurfaceThanks for that info Mike. Now all I gotta do is see if I can find a company that makes bricks within a reasonable distance in Fla. Maybe I can Google that.

Yes, the oyster shell grit would not be a good thing as a soil amendment. Crushed granite, crushed brick, perlite,
the Turface product, and small pea or aquarium type gravel all produce good soil drainage without a problem.

Russ
Norma Lewis
2004-08-26 23:38:08 UTC
Permalink
That is a good mix for everything except great for Hoya as well, . too rich and it keeps too moist for the other succulent plants. I could not use them on the Crassulaceae genua at all, including all of them Afria to U.S, to So. America, no catus either. Again that will depend on how dry and fast your soil dries out. There are so many receipes for soil, we could write a book.
I'm not sure, they used to toss them out. I talked them in to selling them instead. I sold many of them one year, but there was a big stink by another forum of unfair treatment. When you don't know about a forum, if you are mistreated by the people on that forum why should they be offered to them. I was doing the work of getting them mailed off. It's not their God given right. I can't go to the Olympic because everyone else does, I can't get a new car because others do, It's a priviledge not a gimme. So John Trager cut out the program, when I refused to do the work. So now we treat all fairly, no one gets offered anything for the past three years. And it is really not anyone business who the Huntington sells to. I offered to do the work and handle it all, I had three hundered plants down my driveway, I was working until midnight every night so I could send off six packages daily. It was not appreciated. I can't take on two groups, if one is nasty that is the one I elimenate. I am a volunteer not on staff. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?

Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover from what I use on my bromeliads.

joe flaherty


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



Russ, Pine bark is excellant. I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw. It worked for them. At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to flower.
So we never need to take up more room per plant. When they start to rise up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot. We don't want them to get big and massive. We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need to for us, and it save a lot of space.
Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound. What I do at home I have them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the rest are brought to a meeting and sold. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly. Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out when it's watered.

From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots. Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ




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Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 18:03:09 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Russ, </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Did you say that you do leaf starts in pure perlite?</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>As a newbie, I thank all of you for this base knowledge. You know, you can grow your common san forever, and <U>then</U> when you really start trying it's like you've never seen a plant in your life!<BR></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR>joe</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR></FONT>"Russ" &lt;***@cfl.rr.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></P><ZETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name="GENERATOR">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Norma, personally&nbsp;I use some other stuff in my Sans soil mixes, but I think most people, especially novice growers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>appreciate suggesting materials they can easily get.&nbsp; And lets face it, our Sans will do OK in an endless&nbsp;variety of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>materials.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I'm experimenting with the calcined clay product Turface as an additive.&nbsp; A large grain,&nbsp;not the small fine stuff.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>It does not seem </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>to be the same as cat litter, which will go to mush if you leave it for a time in water.&nbsp; It's harder </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>and much more </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>durable than litter.&nbsp; It does absorb some water, and releases it as the organic material </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>around it </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>dries out.&nbsp; But it is essentially an aggregate.&nbsp; I use a lot of perlite in my mix, and for the organic additive I have used either finely&nbsp; </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>ground bark, Canadian </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>peat moss, </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>or&nbsp;one of the professional grade peat mixes such as Fafard #3.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>All these are </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>very similar made by </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>various companies,&nbsp;as long as it says&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>the word 'professional' on the bag.&nbsp; It's </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>available in </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>big bags at any Home Depot, Lowe's, KMart or Target garden area.&nbsp; A wetting agent is also added,&nbsp;and </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>this&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>material does retain water longer </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>than ground bark or straight Canadian peat, so you have to increase the amount</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>of aggregate accordingly for Sans.&nbsp; The wetting agent only lasts about 6 months or so, thereafter it acts like </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>a regular peat/fine bark mix.&nbsp; The bark added is usually described on the bag as 'a forest product'.&nbsp; In small pots </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>of </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>3 to 4 inches, you can use this stuff straight if you want, this&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>small amount dries fast enough.&nbsp; I'd rather see</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>the addition of coarse perlite or other aggregate for large pots.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>The finely ground bark that I use is a nursery product, and looks as if it's been composted for a time.&nbsp; So</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>it doesn't seem to be a nitrogen stealer like freshly ground bark would.&nbsp; I first found my first Turface type stuff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>in a feed store being sold as chicken grit.&nbsp; Since then I found it at a nursery supply place about 30 minutes from</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>the house.&nbsp; I've seen it once in an Ace Hardware store.&nbsp; A bit hard to find.&nbsp; I'd use pumice if I could get it.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>All you&nbsp;old timers here that already know this stuff, bear with me a bit since there are lots of folks here that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>are trying to learn about soil mixes and basic knowledge that we take for granted.&nbsp; I think it's a good idea to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>present this info once in awhile, many newbies here may be not be inclined to let us know that they don't know the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>difference between&nbsp;perlite and a white rock.&nbsp; Every one of us were there once.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Best to everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Russ</FONT></DIV>
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hermine
2004-08-26 18:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Flaherty
Russ,
Did you say that you do leaf starts in pure perlite?
As a newbie, I thank all of you for this base knowledge. You know, you can
grow your common san forever, and then when you really start trying it's
like you've never seen a plant in your life!
joe
I hate perlite because it floats to the top and i just hate it.

i actually believe for potted plants there is ONE MIX which works for
everything.

it is made up of brown stuff and white stuff.

pretty much it is sterile or free of nutrients and requires either
something time-release, or constant dilute feeding like hydroponics.

when you make up a mix using your hands and rub the stuff between your
palms, it is easy to see what is the right proportions.

composted bark material and pumice or turface, sharp sand, you can grow
almost anything in this.

in the real world, when i could get it, i had oak leaf mold, which is so
expensive in California i have never bought it..... i also liked osmunda,
shredded, for my epiphytes, and pumice, for them also.

LOAM is the thing i miss the most in California. our land is decomposed
granite, DG as they call it in the masonry yards. but after growing things
in one place for years, you start to automatically make topsoil from the
decayed leaf materials you are creating.

Composted wood, shredded sphagnum, some white stuff like pumice, sharp
sand, vermiculite, turface, this is pretty much what the potted plants
grow in.
I used to take the recipes for this much more seriously.

hermine
Russ
2004-08-26 19:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Joe. Yes, I do use pure perlite to root Sans cuttings in, but I prefer to mix a little organic stuff in with
it only so I can tell when it needs watering. Pure perlite looks pretty much the same wet or dry, have to
pick up the pot, or fluff it with a finger to tell. A little peat or peat mix, just enough to make it look 'dirty',
gives a heads up on moisture, light brown is dry, dark brown still wet. Since perlite is super light and a pain
in that respect, you have to pay more attention to propping tall cuttings so they don't fall over. I sometimes use
a taller pot than necessary with only a few inches of perlite in the bottom, so I can prop the cuts against the
side of the pot. When you're sticking cuttings, don't be afraid to bunch them quite close together. You'd be
surprised how many 4 to 6 inch cuttings you can get in a 4 inch pot of dirty perlite. At least a dozen if they're
skinny like a 'Nelsonii' or 'Gray Lady'. I recently divided a 4 inch pot of small 'Jade Dwarf' plants from leaf cuts that were jammed so tightly there was no room between them. Once they're separated out and in their own 3 inch pots, they do fine.

I'm not real fond of perlite because it floats to the surface, per Hermine. But when you're not in
the mecca of pumice, perlite is just about it. I don't find coarse sand to be that great, it actually holds too
much water because of smaller particles in with it. Guess I could screen it but lota trouble. I haven't
found a source with consistent large grain size. I'd probably use that, at least as an addition, if I could find it.

Russ
hermine
2004-08-26 21:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
I'm not real fond of perlite because it floats to the surface, per
Hermine. But when you're not in
the mecca of pumice, perlite is just about it. I don't find coarse sand
to be that great, it actually holds too
much water because of smaller particles in with it. Guess I could screen
it but lota trouble. I haven't
found a source with consistent large grain size. I'd probably use that,
at least as an addition, if I could find it.
Russ
at the masonry yard, i get a coarse sand which is like aquarium gravel,
very sharp, angular pieces, sand really DOES hold water in a pot, contrary
to what some cactus folks believe.

the only caution when you get stuff from a masonry yard is to be sure it is
not SALTY.

there is a bird grit without oyster shells, but it is a pet store item
and rather costly.

after a while a nursery tends to have on hand all kinds of STUFF, which,
when mixed together, can be used for one thing and another, i know that
sounds vague, but it is like that.

I am about to pot up some plants now and i will be using some of the DG we
got for the substrate of a new greenhouse, a bit of shredded peat and
whatever is in some pots containing dead plants. Plus the thick mulch of
crushed gravel to hold things upright, this is the stuff i put on the floor
of greenhouses and also dog runs, angual and rather large, but it props up
topheavy plants until they have their own grown-in-place root systems. this
is very important, WOBBLY PLANTS have a bad time of it!

hermine
Russ
2004-08-27 02:36:26 UTC
Permalink
Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?

Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?

Russ
hermine
2004-08-27 02:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for
laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?
Yes, depending upon grade and colour. it is also the substance out of which
23280 Stephanie road, Perris CA 92570 is made.
Post by Russ
Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it
looked like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?
hmmmmmm. it ranges from eggshell, which during the arts and crafts
movement, was used tamped down to create non lawn garden spaces, to reddish
brown, from iron oxides. it is not limestone, it is GRANITE, which is said
to be decomposed from having been pulverized by glacier and other abrasive
action, it has not in fact, undergone chemical degradation such as might
happen to limestone or marble. it is fairly inert chemically, in the PH dept.

I just potted up eight Sansevierias in special pots with special Japanese
pebble mulch and much tamping and so forth, i still have DG under my
fingernails, but at least IT IS DONE! I also propped some of them up with
rocks from the special rock collection for plant propping.

hermine
PS one of the dogs grabbed a plant and ran off with it, but surely you
heard my scream, and he dropped it
Russ
2004-08-27 03:20:19 UTC
Permalink
Hermine. I'll have to ask the folks at Home Depot what the bagged white stuff is, exactly.

Yes, I think I did hear a scream of Sansevieria terror.
Russ
Marcy
2004-08-27 03:42:48 UTC
Permalink
I bought a bag of little white rocks at HD (building dept)last year
before I found the BIG bag of pumice at a local nursery (H&H). I had
used a few handfulls of them for top dressing as they are quite
pretty. I think they are quartz (that is what it looks like). If it
were limestones what would be the danger? Also is quartz OK to use
on plants?
Marcy
Post by Russ
Hermine. I'll have to ask the folks at Home Depot what the bagged white stuff is, exactly.
Yes, I think I did hear a scream of Sansevieria terror.
Russ
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Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 05:35:09 UTC
Permalink
That depends if you are showing them, Most African plants grow in quartzite. I don't know about Sansevieria in situ. Didn't see one while I was there. Usually a good book will tell you what they grow in. Don't assume that they grow all the same. We should keep our eyes out for that information and if all of you report in we could quickly make a list of which one likes what kind of minerals added to their soil. Bonemeal promotes root growth, and it is a natural substance. Bloodmeal will promote strong leaf growth. 10-10-10 is well balanced for the plants.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcy
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:42 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Re: Repotting, soil mix ingredients


I bought a bag of little white rocks at HD (building dept)last year
before I found the BIG bag of pumice at a local nursery (H&H). I had
used a few handfulls of them for top dressing as they are quite
pretty. I think they are quartz (that is what it looks like). If it
were limestones what would be the danger? Also is quartz OK to use
on plants?
Marcy
Post by Russ
Hermine. I'll have to ask the folks at Home Depot what the bagged white stuff is, exactly.
Yes, I think I did hear a scream of Sansevieria terror.
Russ
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hermine
2004-08-27 05:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Lewis
That depends if you are showing them, Most African plants grow in
quartzite. I don't know about Sansevieria in situ.
they grow in a range of habitats, including something like dryish
grasslands, or prairie, as well as the same environment as the more extreme
xerophytes. i do not think it is necessary to duplicate their exact soils
when we cultivate them. in fact, there are very few plants which require
the exact soils, CERTAIN PALMS COME TO MIND, amonth the most difficult
plants, the ones seldom seen in cultivation

herm
Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 05:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Hermine, doesn't egg shells have the same minerals as oyster shell basically. I also us clam, or mussels, smashing them with a hammer, bone meal will work also, and it doesnt break down quickly, like vermiculite, which end up mush and compacted. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


At 07:36 PM 8/26/04, Russ wrote:


Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?


Yes, depending upon grade and colour. it is also the substance out of which 23280 Stephanie road, Perris CA 92570 is made.



Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?


hmmmmmm. it ranges from eggshell, which during the arts and crafts movement, was used tamped down to create non lawn garden spaces, to reddish brown, from iron oxides. it is not limestone, it is GRANITE, which is said to be decomposed from having been pulverized by glacier and other abrasive action, it has not in fact, undergone chemical degradation such as might happen to limestone or marble. it is fairly inert chemically, in the PH dept.

I just potted up eight Sansevierias in special pots with special Japanese pebble mulch and much tamping and so forth, i still have DG under my fingernails, but at least IT IS DONE! I also propped some of them up with rocks from the special rock collection for plant propping.

hermine
PS one of the dogs grabbed a plant and ran off with it, but surely you heard my scream, and he dropped it

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Michael LaForest
2004-08-27 02:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Norma, do these clams and mussels you use come from the ocean? I would have
been concerned about the salt content from these shells. Eggshells sound
like excellent amendments in moderation, except I wonder what kinds of ants
and bugs they might attract to finish-off any edible tidbits.
Mike

From: "Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:28:58 -0700
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


Hermine, doesn't egg shells have the same minerals as oyster shell
basically. I also us clam, or mussels, smashing them with a hammer, bone
meal will work also, and it doesnt break down quickly, like vermiculite,
which end up mush and compacted. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine <mailto:***@endangeredspecies.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients

At 07:36 PM 8/26/04, Russ wrote:

Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for
laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?


Yes, depending upon grade and colour. it is also the substance out of which
23280 Stephanie road, Perris CA 92570 is made.


Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy
bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked
like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?


hmmmmmm. it ranges from eggshell, which during the arts and crafts movement,
was used tamped down to create non lawn garden spaces, to reddish brown,
from iron oxides. it is not limestone, it is GRANITE, which is said to be
decomposed from having been pulverized by glacier and other abrasive action,
it has not in fact, undergone chemical degradation such as might happen to
limestone or marble. it is fairly inert chemically, in the PH dept.

I just potted up eight Sansevierias in special pots with special Japanese
pebble mulch and much tamping and so forth, i still have DG under my
fingernails, but at least IT IS DONE! I also propped some of them up with
rocks from the special rock collection for plant propping.

hermine
PS one of the dogs grabbed a plant and ran off with it, but surely you heard
my scream, and he dropped it

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hermine
2004-08-27 14:50:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael LaForest
Norma, do these clams and mussels you use come from the ocean? I would
have been concerned about the salt content from these shells. Eggshells
sound like excellent amendments in moderation, except I wonder what kinds
of ants and bugs they might attract to finish-off any edible tidbits.
Mike
oh they do not have bits of meat attached to them. In Brooklyn NY the
Italians used whole clam shells pressed into the earth and occasionally
into concrete in their gardens, many of these were HUGE clamshells, people
did not eat these clams, but their shells littered high tide of the
beaches. egg shells contain calcium, i feed our left over shells to the
dogs. i never thought of putting them into a soil mix. this does not mean
it is a bad idea, but a person can overdo the hard water thing HERE by
using mineral substances which may be soluble. we get stalactites plugging
up our water emitting devices here, pipe scale you might not believe, and
white rings around the drainholes of the pots.

herm
Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 15:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredientsYes those shells where once from the ocean,. all shells are , except of imported snails. Eggshells, once the ants eat the tidbits there're history. None of this stuff ever caused me any problems, I don't even put my pots in the oven to make sure that every possible thing is dead before using them either, nor the soil. When I first started this hobby, I did. I had a big dip tub, in the pots went for their 20 minute Clorex bath, and they dried a day in the hot sun, then I was told this was not necessary, the shells I use have been washed before use, (smashing) and I think the oyster shell, that is used for the bird cages has been washed as well. Now I use bone meal insead it is much easier. I don't have ants yet in my 20 year old greenhouse even though I never wash any tools I use either. I just don't go overboard. and don't look or create problems. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael LaForest
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


Norma, do these clams and mussels you use come from the ocean? I would have been concerned about the salt content from these shells. Eggshells sound like excellent amendments in moderation, except I wonder what kinds of ants and bugs they might attract to finish-off any edible tidbits.
Mike


From: "Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:28:58 -0700
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients




Hermine, doesn't egg shells have the same minerals as oyster shell basically. I also us clam, or mussels, smashing them with a hammer, bone meal will work also, and it doesnt break down quickly, like vermiculite, which end up mush and compacted. Norma

----- Original Message -----
From: hermine <mailto:***@endangeredspecies.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients

At 07:36 PM 8/26/04, Russ wrote:


Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?



Yes, depending upon grade and colour. it is also the substance out of which 23280 Stephanie road, Perris CA 92570 is made.



Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?



hmmmmmm. it ranges from eggshell, which during the arts and crafts movement, was used tamped down to create non lawn garden spaces, to reddish brown, from iron oxides. it is not limestone, it is GRANITE, which is said to be decomposed from having been pulverized by glacier and other abrasive action, it has not in fact, undergone chemical degradation such as might happen to limestone or marble. it is fairly inert chemically, in the PH dept.

I just potted up eight Sansevierias in special pots with special Japanese pebble mulch and much tamping and so forth, i still have DG under my fingernails, but at least IT IS DONE! I also propped some of them up with rocks from the special rock collection for plant propping.

hermine
PS one of the dogs grabbed a plant and ran off with it, but surely you heard my scream, and he dropped it

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Michael Barclay
2004-08-27 06:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Russ- In No Cal it's known as "road base" and you lay it,
soak and roll it over a layer of weed block
fabric and then cover with crushed red or beige granite. It looks spectacular in the landscape, becomes as
hard as concrete after the winter rains and rermains virtually weed free. Great stuff but pumice is better for
potting as is aquarium gravel-sharp, coarse river sand in chunks between 1/8" and 3/8".
Michael


----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?

Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?

Russ



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John Gamesby
2004-08-27 11:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Norma,
I have seen Sansevierias growing in everything from shale to sand in Africa.
In Sri Lanka I even saw an enormous patch of S. trif growing arround the edg of a pond in pure wet red clay like reeds.

John
Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 15:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, John I have only seen pictures of where they are growing. I know they grow well in Koko crater. There must somehing there to there liking as well, and Juan telll me that they love his backyard. which is made up of old coral wreath and was once under the sea. I truly believe they will grow in anything that you give them including my couch. I believe that the shells don't retain the salt in their shell at all, they eat what is in the water minute particles of other animals, living or dead. When I get the shells from a restaurant they have been boiled in water, and the contents I eat, and it is not salty either but full of cholorestal. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: John Gamesby
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


Norma,
I have seen Sansevierias growing in everything from shale to sand in Africa.
In Sri Lanka I even saw an enormous patch of S. trif growing arround the edg of a pond in pure wet red clay like reeds.

John


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Russ
2004-08-27 17:00:49 UTC
Permalink
I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'. Makes me feel so English, so European. And part
of me, after all, is.

I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos or have dogs that pull up and run away
with my Sansevierias.

Russ.
hermine
2004-08-27 17:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'. Makes me feel
so English, so European. And part
of me, after all, is.
I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos
or have dogs that pull up and run away
with my Sansevierias.
Russ.
I had a third grate teacher who used these spellings and crossed her
sevens. as far as i know, she was irish and born in Brooklyn, so i have no
idea where this came from.

my dogs do not pull up sansevierias, i had some young ones out, the kind
who grab things and run, so you will run after them.

but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.

hermine
Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 19:58:40 UTC
Permalink
That is the spelling I use as well, I notice they are dropping ending extra letter L ( Thoughtfull) Hermine and I learned the same spelling. My husband is my spell check when he is at home. Soon we will abbrev. everything. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


At 10:00 AM 8/27/04, Russ wrote:


I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'. Makes me feel so English, so European. And part
of me, after all, is.

I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos or have dogs that pull up and run away
with my Sansevierias.

Russ.
I had a third grate teacher who used these spellings and crossed her sevens. as far as i know, she was irish and born in Brooklyn, so i have no idea where this came from.

my dogs do not pull up sansevierias, i had some young ones out, the kind who grab things and run, so you will run after them.

but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.

hermine

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Russ
2004-08-28 01:32:54 UTC
Permalink
I would only have about a half a head to shave, and room for a depiction of the history of the world.
Russ

but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.

hermine
Russ
2004-08-27 15:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Yes, Michael, I know DG as road base also, and it does compact with time or traffic into a hard surface.
The compacting quality is what made me surprised that it's an OK ingredient for a plant soil mix.

Wonder why pumice is only a west coast product. Is it mined out there? Where DOES it come from?

Russ
hermine
2004-08-27 15:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Russ
Yes, Michael, I know DG as road base also, and it does compact with time
or traffic into a hard surface.
The compacting quality is what made me surprised that it's an OK
ingredient for a plant soil mix.
Wonder why pumice is only a west coast product. Is it mined out
there? Where DOES it come from?
Russ
Yes, in the paramount mountains. the high cost elsewhere is from the price
of schlepping it.

DG which we are specifying for a landscape job, behaves very differently if
it is dry and compacted, than when it is used in a mix of particulate
material of different sizes and shapes.

hermine
Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 18:10:12 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>You better get with it Herm, now the fancy spas use the clay kitty litters for mud masks and treatments!</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>My cats would have a nervous break down without their fancy designer clumping litter.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>joe</P> <P><BR></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR><BR></FONT>hermine &lt;***@endangeredspecies.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR><FONT size=3>At 11:11 AM 8/26/04, Russ wrote:<BR><BR></P></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=2>Norma, personally I use some other stuff in my Sans soil mixes, but I think most people, especially novice growers,<BR>appreciate suggesting materials they can easily get.&nbsp; And lets face it, our Sans will do OK in an endless variety of<BR>materials.&nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT size=3>&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT size=2>I'm experimenting with the calcined clay product Turface as an additive.&nbsp; A large grain, not the small fine stuff.&nbsp; <BR>It does not seem to be the same as cat litter, which will go to mush if you leave it for a time in water.&nbsp; It's harder <BR>and much more durable than litter.&nbsp; </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>AH! in the old days, they really made durable cat litter, which never turned to mush, it was essentially the same as Turface. i suppose there are designer cat litter brands around. I was using cat litte
r circa 1975 and thereabouts. eventually i used the Turface i was buying at the agriculture place, instead of kitty litter.<BR><BR>hermine<BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR>

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hermine
2004-08-26 18:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Flaherty
You better get with it Herm, now the fancy spas use the clay kitty litters
for mud masks and treatments!
My cats would have a nervous break down without their fancy designer
clumping litter.
joe
I suppose i remember when they came out with the litter which turned into
mud, it was for the sake of non clogging toilets or something, but in the
OLD DAYS it was CALCINED clay.

We did not have clumping litter! sometimes we used shredded newspapers,
and STILL managed to raise champion Persian cats!

Naturally i have never been to a spa, fancy or otherwise, nor have i had a
mud treatment, although i have been very muddy in the course of a day's
work., and was considerably beautified thereby.

hermine
Russ
2004-08-26 18:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Marcy, you're lucky to live where you do in the land of 'endless pumice' and Grigsby's.
Sansevierias are tough, as you know, and are the ultimate botanical survivors. Living rootbound
in a pot to the breaking point is easy for them.

Unpot one, shake the dirt off it and throw it on a shadehouse bench or a kitchen
windowsill and leave for an extended visit to Aunt Helga in Norway....

Come back a year later....

It will still be there...... smiling!

Russ
Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 18:35:58 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Okay, I guess I need to get with it myself, having never been to a spa either, but you're right, I leave the garden filthy but with a smile on my face. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR></FONT>hermine &lt;***@endangeredspecies.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR><FONT size=3>At 11:10 AM 8/26/04, Joe Flaherty wrote:<BR><BR></P></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=arial color=#006600 size=3>You better get with it Herm, now the fancy spas use the clay kitty litters for mud masks and treatments!<BR></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial color=#006600 size=3>My cats would have a nervous break down without their fancy designer clumping litter.<BR></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial color=#006600 size=3>joe</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I suppose i remember when they&nbsp; came out with the litter which turned into mud, it was for the sake of non clogging toilets or something, but in the OLD DAYS it was CALCINED clay.<BR><BR>We did not have clumping litter!&nbsp; sometimes we used shredded newspapers, and STILL managed to raise champion Persian cats! <BR><BR>Naturally i have never been to a spa, fancy or otherwise, nor have i had a mud treatment, although i have been very muddy in the cou
rse of a day's work., and was considerably beautified thereby.<BR><BR>hermine</FONT> <BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR>

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K J Gray
2004-08-26 19:05:06 UTC
Permalink
on 8/26/04 2:35 PM, Joe Flaherty at ***@usa.net wrote:


Okay, I guess I need to get with it myself, having never been to a spa
either, but you're right, I leave the garden filthy but with a smile on my
face.


hermine <***@endangeredspecies.com> wrote:

At 11:10 AM 8/26/04, Joe Flaherty wrote:

You better get with it Herm, now the fancy spas use the clay kitty litters
for mud masks and treatments!

My cats would have a nervous break down without their fancy designer
clumping litter.
snip
snip
Naturally i have never been to a spa, fancy or otherwise, nor have i had a
mud treatment, although i have been very muddy in the course of a day's
work., and was considerably beautified thereby.

hermine
snip

My two feline pals are now so used to the ground up corn cob litter I use
they won't even consider using something as mundane as clay of any kind!
Spoiled rotten they are, and nobody to blame but me :). But they do delight
in trying to help me when I mix up some potting medium, either by jumping
into the mixing bucket, or curling up and lying on a mound of it. Then they
gleefully spread it over the carpet when they leave. But I wouldn't know how
to live without them, so I'm not really complaining.

Karen
K J Gray
2004-08-26 19:18:45 UTC
Permalink
snip
When I finally got around to repotting one of my OLD s. t.
Laurentiis last summer, the pot was so full of roots, there was no
soil that I could find in it at all. How do these plants go on
living at all like that??
snip

Never ceases to amaze me what some growing things can manage to survive. I
once found a small gymnocalycium cactus that got knocked off its shelf, and
landed in a dark, dusty corner, where it spent at least eight months before
I noticed it. Never occurred to me it was still alive, but instead of
tossing it away, I just stuck it back in the pot and put it back on the
shelf. It got a bit of water by mistake when I watered the pot beside it,
and one day I noticed it had begun to grow again. It was not a pretty
specimen, all battered, covered in corky layers, but it had grown new roots
and was doing fine. The fact that I see Sans surviving in all sorts of
unexpected locations and all kinds of conditions from full sun to the
dimmest corner, blasting heat or right in front of the airconditioner,
leads me to suspect they are about as tough as plants come. Which is why it
is a pleasure to see them when they are grown well... the difference is
remarkable.

Karen
Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 20:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Karen, If Mike starts telling you about an ancestor of his from canada WATCH
OUT! It must go with the name Michael, which in French means "teller of tall
tales"....

Hermine, if you want oyster shells I'll walk across the street and shovel some
up. You can drive over them in your car.

joe


Michael LaForest <***@earthlink.net> wrote:

All chicken grit is not created equal. Some of it is ground oyster shells.
It is all high in calcium and my chemistry is not good enough to know what
effect it might have on the chemistry of your potting mix. The grit is used
by the chicken gizzard to help digest food, and aids in the formation of
tough egg shells. It is certainly cheep (a little ha ha there). Joe knows
I know about chickens. Leave the chicken grit to the birds.

And Karen, do you remember me talking to you earlier this year when I
learned you were from Mississauga, Ontario, and my grandmother being from
Holland Landing? Welcome to this most diverse and weird discussion group!
Mike

From: hermine <***@endangeredspecies.com>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:11:39 -0700
To: ***@yahoogroups.com,<***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas



CHICKEN GRIT! i gotta get me some of that! i bet that would be great!
anything which is not an agricultural specialty is bound to be cheaper!

herm







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Michael LaForest
2004-08-26 08:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Hey Joe! You must have me confused with another Michael who DOES tell some
whoppers. Actually, my name means, "He who is like G-d" while my surname
name has something to do with living in the woods or the forest. I think
the ancient ones were gypsies.
Mike

From: Joe Flaherty <***@usa.net>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:41:43 -0500
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>, <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] chicken grit not created equal


Karen, If Mike starts telling you about an ancestor of his from canada WATCH
OUT! It must go with the name Michael, which in French means "teller of tall
tales"....

Hermine, if you want oyster shells I'll walk across the street and shovel
some
up. You can drive over them in your car.

joe
Joe Flaherty
2004-08-26 23:58:59 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Norma, That is tragic. Volunteers are appreciated, just not often thanked. As one who probasbly visited while you were volunteering, I want to say thank you. The Huntington is amazing! I know it takes people like you that add the love to the whole program that make it special. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>So, on behalf of nameless visitors from around the country and world...thanks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>joe<BR></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR><BR></FONT>"Norma Lewis" &lt;***@adelphia.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></P><ZETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZETA name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 6.00.2743.600">
<DIV><FONT size=2>That is a good mix for everything except&nbsp;&nbsp; great for Hoya as well, . too rich and it keeps too moist for the other succulent plants. I could not use them on the Crassulaceae genua at all,&nbsp; including all of them Afria to U.S, to So. America, no catus either.&nbsp; Again that will depend on how dry and fast your soil dries out.&nbsp; There are so many receipes for soil, we could write a book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>&nbsp; I'm not sure, they used to toss them out.&nbsp;I talked them in to selling them instead. &nbsp;I sold many of them one year, but there was a big stink by another forum of unfair treatment. When you don't know about a forum, if you are mistreated by the people on that forum why should they be offered to them.&nbsp; I was doing the work of getting them mailed off. &nbsp; It's not their God given right. I can't go to the Olympic because everyone else does, I can't get a new car because others do, It's a priviledge not a gimme.&nbsp;So John Trager cut out the program, when I&nbsp;refused to do the work.&nbsp; So now we treat all fairly, no one gets offered anything for the past three years.&nbsp; And it&nbsp;is really not anyone business who the Huntington sells to.&nbsp; I offered to&nbsp;do the work and&nbsp;handle it all,&nbsp; I had three&nbsp;hundered plants dow
n my driveway,&nbsp; I was working until midnight every night so I could send off six packages daily.&nbsp; It was not appreciated.&nbsp; I can't take on two&nbsp;groups, if one is nasty that is the one I elimenate.&nbsp;&nbsp; I am a volunteer not on staff.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Norma </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=***@usa.net href="mailto:***@usa.net">Joe Flaherty</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=***@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:***@yahoogroups.com">***@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:07 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover from what I use on my bromeliads.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3>joe flaherty</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=3><BR></FONT>"Norma Lewis" &lt;<A href="mailto:***@adelphia.net">***@adelphia.net</A>&gt; wrote:<BR><BR></P><ZETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZETA name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 6.00.2743.600">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT size=2>Russ, Pine bark is excellant.&nbsp; I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw.&nbsp; It worked for them.&nbsp; At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to flower.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>So we never need to take up more room per plant.&nbsp; When they start to rise up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot.&nbsp; We don't want them to get big and massive.&nbsp; We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need to for us, and it save a lot of space.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound.&nbsp; What I do at home I have them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the rest are brought to a meeting and sold.&nbsp; Norma </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=***@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:***@cfl.rr.com">Russ</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=***@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:***@yahoogroups.com">***@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>and tip </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot.&nbsp; I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I&nbsp;can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Sometimes rolling </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil&nbsp;so you can get the plants loose and out of it.&nbsp; If</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess.&nbsp; Once</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you have all the plants out,&nbsp;gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves.&nbsp; You may have to try working the rhizomes together in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space.&nbsp; The idea here is to figure out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have.&nbsp; Then</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be&nbsp;more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>deep.&nbsp; You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>you wish.&nbsp; Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones.&nbsp; You can put some pea</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it.&nbsp; It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>at the bottom.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Soil mix.&nbsp; I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>access to pumice.&nbsp; I've only seen it once.&nbsp; You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>to make it drain well.&nbsp; Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>a wetting agent.<FONT size=+0>&nbsp; I don't use any stuff sold by the pound.&nbsp; This will be usually&nbsp;just dirt sold under the false name </FONT><FONT size=+0>of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling </FONT>a hole in the yard.&nbsp; I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc.&nbsp; Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap.&nbsp; You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>If the pot you've selected is not glazed, </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly.&nbsp; Glazed may be better </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it.&nbsp; If it's neglected </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go.&nbsp; If you don't put gravel </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>coming out when it's watered.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots.&nbsp; Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>not leaving any gaps without mix.&nbsp; You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be.&nbsp; It's not good to </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>them should not be something to keep you up at night.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>pea gravel, etc.&nbsp; But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store.&nbsp; The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>be OK, but </FONT><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>not necessary in my humble opinion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Let us know how you come out on this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Best, Russ</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 05:21:22 UTC
Permalink
Joe, John Trager appreciated what I was doing, we raised $2,200 I just can't take on two different forums of people. Ours was the nice ones, (people) I just wouldn't deal with the others. Because of what their all mighty leader lied about what John Trager said about me, John refused to respond to that, so I thought it was so and because of it I quit the Huntington for 5 months. I enjoy what I do, I enjoy helping and doing my share. This year more money raised and the money is going for repairs for the old conservatory, a better envirenment for the visistors and plants, more air circulation which is badly needed. The Huntington doesn't have the money to replace this old conservatory, so we must do what we can to preserve it. Come and visit, you may stay a week with us, and be my guest at the Huntington, and if you are lucky help us pot up for a day. They had a big thank you party for the volunteers, I just don't go, I don't llike the money spent for things like that, we work so hard to earn it.
Thank you Joe for being so considerate. You just made my day. Norma


----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, That is tragic. Volunteers are appreciated, just not often thanked. As one who probasbly visited while you were volunteering, I want to say thank you. The Huntington is amazing! I know it takes people like you that add the love to the whole program that make it special.

So, on behalf of nameless visitors from around the country and world...thanks.

joe


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



That is a good mix for everything except great for Hoya as well, . too rich and it keeps too moist for the other succulent plants. I could not use them on the Crassulaceae genua at all, including all of them Afria to U.S, to So. America, no catus either. Again that will depend on how dry and fast your soil dries out. There are so many receipes for soil, we could write a book.
I'm not sure, they used to toss them out. I talked them in to selling them instead. I sold many of them one year, but there was a big stink by another forum of unfair treatment. When you don't know about a forum, if you are mistreated by the people on that forum why should they be offered to them. I was doing the work of getting them mailed off. It's not their God given right. I can't go to the Olympic because everyone else does, I can't get a new car because others do, It's a priviledge not a gimme. So John Trager cut out the program, when I refused to do the work. So now we treat all fairly, no one gets offered anything for the past three years. And it is really not anyone business who the Huntington sells to. I offered to do the work and handle it all, I had three hundered plants down my driveway, I was working until midnight every night so I could send off six packages daily. It was not appreciated. I can't take on two groups, if one is nasty that is the one I elimenate. I am a volunteer not on staff. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?

Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover from what I use on my bromeliads.

joe flaherty


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



Russ, Pine bark is excellant. I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw. It worked for them. At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to flower.
So we never need to take up more room per plant. When they start to rise up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot. We don't want them to get big and massive. We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need to for us, and it save a lot of space.
Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound. What I do at home I have them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the rest are brought to a meeting and sold. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot, something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1 part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly. Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out when it's watered.

From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots. Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ




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Sue Haffner
2004-08-27 00:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Marcy,

It is famously recounted that Dave Grigsby potted everything in
a 50-50 mix of perlite and Supersoil. Perhaps they have refined it
a bit, in the intervening years.

Sue Haffner

----- Original Message -----
From: Marcy <***@aol.com>
Date: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:29 am
Subject: [Sansevierias] Re: Karen, repotting trifasciatas
When I was last out at Grigsby's, I asked Rita (I think that was
her
name) what they used as mix because when I repotted some of the
former bunch it seemed they were grown in pure stones. She said
they
use half pumice stone (little white rocks) and half "Super Soil"
(a
potting mix found readly and cheaply at Home Depots and Lowes
around
here.) She said as time goes along, the soil gets washed out &
only
the pumice remains so one must either repot or add soil to the top
occationally.
When I finally got around to repotting one of my OLD s. t.
Laurentiis last summer, the pot was so full of roots, there was no
soil that I could find in it at all. How do these plants go on
living at all like that??
Marcy
Post by hermine
I observe many Sansevierias grown in the most sparse and drainy
mixes,
Post by hermine
instead of something which looks like earth. like Lithops kind
of
soil.
Post by hermine
they could use a bit more earth.
hermine
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Michael Barclay
2004-08-27 06:53:44 UTC
Permalink
When Lila Lilty was alive she insisted on never using the word soil
or earth-IT WAS DIRT. I used her
mix for years-it was more retentive and especially formulated for
echeverrias which she bottom watered once
a week during the summer to protect the powdered ones from marks.
LUV





----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Haffner" <***@csufresno.edu>
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Re: Karen, repotting trifasciatas
Post by Sue Haffner
Hi, Marcy,
It is famously recounted that Dave Grigsby potted everything in
a 50-50 mix of perlite and Supersoil. Perhaps they have refined it
a bit, in the intervening years.
Sue Haffner
----- Original Message -----
Date: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:29 am
Subject: [Sansevierias] Re: Karen, repotting trifasciatas
When I was last out at Grigsby's, I asked Rita (I think that was
her
name) what they used as mix because when I repotted some of the
former bunch it seemed they were grown in pure stones. She said
they
use half pumice stone (little white rocks) and half "Super Soil"
(a
potting mix found readly and cheaply at Home Depots and Lowes
around
here.) She said as time goes along, the soil gets washed out &
only
the pumice remains so one must either repot or add soil to the top
occationally.
When I finally got around to repotting one of my OLD s. t.
Laurentiis last summer, the pot was so full of roots, there was no
soil that I could find in it at all. How do these plants go on
living at all like that??
Marcy
Post by hermine
I observe many Sansevierias grown in the most sparse and drainy
mixes,
Post by hermine
instead of something which looks like earth. like Lithops kind
of
soil.
Post by hermine
they could use a bit more earth.
hermine
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Joe Flaherty
2004-08-27 02:23:04 UTC
Permalink
I know at the San Diego C&SS they used to sell it in the big folgers cans as a
service to members. It was whitish-greyish. Lots of people swear by it for
succulents & cacti.

joe


"Russ" <***@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

Hermine. DG is decomposed granite, I assume. It is a material used for
laying road bases, parking lots,
and a base for walks and patios, is it not?

Are you screening this, or just throwing it in the mix? I've seen heavy bags
of white stuff
at Home Depot that's for tamping down under walks and patios, but it looked
like it might be a limestone
type product, and I was afraid to try it. Is DG white colored?

Russ






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Michael Barclay
2004-08-27 07:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Michael means the same in all languages,i.e. he who is like God; he who sheds light like God; he who is radiant; he who is
enlightened-the divinity and radiance are constants. He is the archangel who drove Adam and Eve out of Eden with a flaming sword.
I like the name. I also love bananas-especially those tiny pink lady finger bananas. I have friends in Kawaii who are banana farmers-
they grow more than 30 varieties of Musa x paradisiaca.
The other Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael LaForest
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/26/2004 1:58:05 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Sansevierias] chicken grit not created equal-watch it Joe!


Hey Joe! You must have me confused with another Michael who DOES tell some whoppers. Actually, my name means, "He who is like G-d" while my surname name has something to do with living in the woods or the forest. I think the ancient ones were gypsies.
Mike


From: Joe Flaherty <***@usa.net>
Reply-To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:41:43 -0500
To: <***@yahoogroups.com>, <***@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] chicken grit not created equal




Karen, If Mike starts telling you about an ancestor of his from canada WATCH
OUT! It must go with the name Michael, which in French means "teller of tall
tales"....

Hermine, if you want oyster shells I'll walk across the street and shovel some
up. You can drive over them in your car.

joe



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Joe Flaherty
2004-08-27 12:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Well that does it! Mike and I have been threatening to descend on LA and visit
our siblings(in Torrance). We may have to do it.

I'm glad you went back to volunteering. You shouldn't ever let someone else's
nastiness interfere with doing something valuable and enjoyable. I really
believe that volunteering and helping, gives to us as much as the ones we're
trying to help.

How did you all do it this year, or did you have a different fund raiser? I'm
going to try to get my son's school to do another used book sale. Selfishly.
I've been hoarding books for 30 years, and I probably ought to let other
people have a crack at them. But I'd sure want to see what other people would
donate too.

With the plants why not offer them through a completely neutral entity like
the ISS? It's one more step in an exhausting system, but maybe if someone from
there slapped on the labels it wouldn't be so divisive. Or let one of the
local C&S's sell them at their show and sale and give the huntington's share
back to them.

Isn't it strange? I still keep expecting all plant people to be nurturing,
giving, plant loving people. It sounds like you're like me, Norma. That's why
when someone turns out not to be, it's more of a let down.

Gosh, I've only been on this list 3 days and I'm already attached to all of
you.

joe





"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:

Joe, John Trager appreciated what I was doing, we raised $2,200 I just can't
take on two different forums of people. Ours was the nice ones, (people) I
just wouldn't deal with the others. Because of what their all mighty leader
lied about what John Trager said about me, John refused to respond to that,
so I thought it was so and because of it I quit the Huntington for 5 months.
I enjoy what I do, I enjoy helping and doing my share. This year more money
raised and the money is going for repairs for the old conservatory, a better
envirenment for the visistors and plants, more air circulation which is badly
needed. The Huntington doesn't have the money to replace this old
conservatory, so we must do what we can to preserve it. Come and visit, you
may stay a week with us, and be my guest at the Huntington, and if you are
lucky help us pot up for a day. They had a big thank you party for the
volunteers, I just don't go, I don't llike the money spent for things like
that, we work so hard to earn it.
Thank you Joe for being so considerate. You just made my day. Norma


----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, That is tragic. Volunteers are appreciated, just not often thanked.
As one who probasbly visited while you were volunteering, I want to say thank
you. The Huntington is amazing! I know it takes people like you that add the
love to the whole program that make it special.

So, on behalf of nameless visitors from around the country and
world...thanks.

joe


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



That is a good mix for everything except great for Hoya as well, . too
rich and it keeps too moist for the other succulent plants. I could not use
them on the Crassulaceae genua at all, including all of them Afria to U.S, to
So. America, no catus either. Again that will depend on how dry and fast your
soil dries out. There are so many receipes for soil, we could write a book.
I'm not sure, they used to toss them out. I talked them in to selling them
instead. I sold many of them one year, but there was a big stink by another
forum of unfair treatment. When you don't know about a forum, if you are
mistreated by the people on that forum why should they be offered to them. I
was doing the work of getting them mailed off. It's not their God given
right. I can't go to the Olympic because everyone else does, I can't get a new
car because others do, It's a priviledge not a gimme. So John Trager cut out
the program, when I refused to do the work. So now we treat all fairly, no
one gets offered anything for the past three years. And it is really not
anyone business who the Huntington sells to. I offered to do the work and
handle it all, I had three hundered plants down my driveway, I was working
until midnight every night so I could send off six packages daily. It was not
appreciated. I can't take on two groups, if one is nasty that is the one I
elimenate. I am a volunteer not on staff. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?

Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting
soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover
from what I use on my bromeliads.

joe flaherty


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



Russ, Pine bark is excellant. I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's
cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also
seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw. It worked
for them. At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we
repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them
over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to
flower.
So we never need to take up more room per plant. When they start to rise
up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot. We don't want
them to get big and massive. We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need
to for us, and it save a lot of space.
Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound. What I do at home I have
them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I
take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the
rest are brought to a meeting and sold. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it
out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I
would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of
this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so
you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into
a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing
way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have
to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small
enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide
and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot
I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more
than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom
with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot,
something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or
several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It
also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live
in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good
professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will
usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be
usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good
for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for
potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can
mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1
part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red
clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly.
Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people
throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not
looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't
put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a
small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out
when it's watered.

From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the
plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots.
Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps
without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line
should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the
stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely
ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to
learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is
available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ




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Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 15:51:56 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Well that does it! Mike and I have been threatening to descend on LA and visit
our siblings(in Torrance). We may have to do it.

I'm glad you went back to volunteering. You shouldn't ever let someone else's
nastiness interfere with doing something valuable and enjoyable. I really
believe that volunteering and helping, gives to us as much as the ones we're
trying to help.

How did you all do it this year, or did you have a different fund raiser? I'm
going to try to get my son's school to do another used book sale. Selfishly.
I've been hoarding books for 30 years, and I probably ought to let other
people have a crack at them. But I'd sure want to see what other people would
donate too.

With the plants why not offer them through a completely neutral entity like
the ISS? It's one more step in an exhausting system, but maybe if someone from
there slapped on the labels it wouldn't be so divisive. Or let one of the
local C&S's sell them at their show and sale and give the huntington's share
back to them.

Isn't it strange? I still keep expecting all plant people to be nurturing,
giving, plant loving people. It sounds like you're like me, Norma. That's why
when someone turns out not to be, it's more of a let down.

Gosh, I've only been on this list 3 days and I'm already attached to all of
you.

joe





"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:

Joe, John Trager appreciated what I was doing, we raised $2,200 I just can't
take on two different forums of people. Ours was the nice ones, (people) I
just wouldn't deal with the others. Because of what their all mighty leader
lied about what John Trager said about me, John refused to respond to that,
so I thought it was so and because of it I quit the Huntington for 5 months.
I enjoy what I do, I enjoy helping and doing my share. This year more money
raised and the money is going for repairs for the old conservatory, a better
envirenment for the visistors and plants, more air circulation which is badly
needed. The Huntington doesn't have the money to replace this old
conservatory, so we must do what we can to preserve it. Come and visit, you
may stay a week with us, and be my guest at the Huntington, and if you are
lucky help us pot up for a day. They had a big thank you party for the
volunteers, I just don't go, I don't llike the money spent for things like
that, we work so hard to earn it.
Thank you Joe for being so considerate. You just made my day. Norma


----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, That is tragic. Volunteers are appreciated, just not often thanked.
As one who probasbly visited while you were volunteering, I want to say thank
you. The Huntington is amazing! I know it takes people like you that add the
love to the whole program that make it special.

So, on behalf of nameless visitors from around the country and
world...thanks.

joe


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



That is a good mix for everything except great for Hoya as well, . too
rich and it keeps too moist for the other succulent plants. I could not use
them on the Crassulaceae genua at all, including all of them Afria to U.S, to
So. America, no catus either. Again that will depend on how dry and fast your
soil dries out. There are so many receipes for soil, we could write a book.
I'm not sure, they used to toss them out. I talked them in to selling them
instead. I sold many of them one year, but there was a big stink by another
forum of unfair treatment. When you don't know about a forum, if you are
mistreated by the people on that forum why should they be offered to them. I
was doing the work of getting them mailed off. It's not their God given
right. I can't go to the Olympic because everyone else does, I can't get a new
car because others do, It's a priviledge not a gimme. So John Trager cut out
the program, when I refused to do the work. So now we treat all fairly, no
one gets offered anything for the past three years. And it is really not
anyone business who the Huntington sells to. I offered to do the work and
handle it all, I had three hundered plants down my driveway, I was working
until midnight every night so I could send off six packages daily. It was not
appreciated. I can't take on two groups, if one is nasty that is the one I
elimenate. I am a volunteer not on staff. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Norma, What do they do with the old mother plants from the huntington?

Karen, I use about half pine bark mulch and half professional potting
soil. It's too early days to see if this a good mix or not. It's just leftover
from what I use on my bromeliads.

joe flaherty


"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:



Russ, Pine bark is excellant. I like your soil mix forumla, Grigsby's
cactus nursery usesl big perlite, they are very successful growers, I've also
seem this species grown in a raised bed of wood shavings and straw. It worked
for them. At the Hungtington Gardens we keep them all in gal, size pots, we
repot about every three years, leaving only the new growth, that starts them
over again, like kids, and then it takes them awhile to be mature enough to
flower.
So we never need to take up more room per plant. When they start to rise
up out of their pot, to climb out, then it's time to repot. We don't want
them to get big and massive. We seldom use anything over 8" across, no need
to for us, and it save a lot of space.
Karen follow Russ's suggestions they are sound. What I do at home I have
them in shallow about 8" deep pots, and when they start to crowd the pot I
take out the oldest rosette, and keep only three young ones in the pot, the
rest are brought to a meeting and sold. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: [Sansevierias] Karen, repotting trifasciatas


Karen, if I was handling the problem pot of trifasciata, I would take it
out in the yard, or on a big plastic bag,
and tip it over on its side and get the whole mess out of the pot. I
would then tease the plants out of the soil as best
I can, trying not to break off too many of the orange roots, but some of
this is inevitable, and not a big deal.
Sometimes rolling the root ball back and forth will loosen the soil so
you can get the plants loose and out of it. If
it's as big as you say it is, I suspect it will just all fall apart into
a loose mess. Once
you have all the plants out, gather the plants together in a pleasing
way, so that if they were in a pot at that point,
you would like the spacing and arrangement of the leaves. You may have
to try working the rhizomes together in
different positions so they allow each other to fit together in a small
enough space. The idea here is to figure out
what size you really need to contain those rhizomes and roots, how wide
and deep of a pot you have to have. Then
I'd figure 2 or 3 inches wider, but not taller, and THAT's the size pot
I'd go try to find.

Personally, I can't imagine a pot for 6 trifasciatas needing to be more
than a foot across, and 10 inches to a foot
deep. You can use a deeper pot than you need if you fill the bottom
with pea gravel.

For outside plants possibly in the wind, I'd find a ceramic pot,
something pretty heavy, and perhaps decorative if
you wish. Make sure it has a generously sized hole in the bottom, or
several smaller ones. You can put some pea
gravel or larger in the bottom for weight if you think you need it. It
also doesn't hurt for extra drainage right
at the bottom.

Soil mix. I don't think we know where you live, but if you don't live
in California or parts nearby, you don't have
access to pumice. I've only seen it once. You can use any good
professional peat mix as long as you add an aggregate
to make it drain well. Make sure the bag says 'professional', it will
usually have some finely ground bark added, and
a wetting agent. I don't use any stuff sold by the pound. This will be
usually just dirt sold under the false name of 'potting soil' and is only good
for filling a hole in the yard. I have used it as a small part of a mix for
potting shrubs, etc. Coarse perlite is widely available and cheap. You can
mix this with the peat based potting soil in a ratio of 2 parts peat mix to 1
part coarse perlite, or even 1 to 1 would be OK.

If the pot you've selected is not glazed, like a normal unglazed red
clay pot, I'd use the 2 to 1 mix to keep it from drying out too quickly.
Glazed may be better depending on your climate, rainfall, and how often people
throw their left over coke and coffee in it. If it's neglected a lot, not
looked after by anyone regularly, maybe glazed is the way to go. If you don't
put gravel in the bottom of the pot, find a piece of broken clay pot, or a
small fairly flat rock to put over the hole to keep the mix from coming out
when it's watered.

From here, all you have to do is put some mix in the bottom, stand the
plants in the pot in that attractive arrangement
that you liked before, and put the mix in around rhizomes and roots.
Make sure you get mix in and around all the rhizomes, not leaving any gaps
without mix. You should be able to tell on the plant where the soil line
should be. It's not good to have the point where the lower leaves join the
stem under the soil, but these plants are very forgiving, and potting
them should not be something to keep you up at night.

We could get into other kinds of mixes and additives, such as finely
ground pine bark mulch, coarse builder's sand,
pea gravel, etc. But this just confounds the average grower trying to
learn about this, since these materials are not
easily found in the local Home Depot or Target store. The pea gravel is
available, and mixing some of this in would
be OK, but not necessary in my humble opinion.

Hope this is not so detailed as to scare you off the project.
Let us know how you come out on this.
Best, Russ




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Joe Flaherty
2004-08-27 20:08:08 UTC
Permalink
<html> <body> <FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=2>I kept thinking,"how else CAN you spell it?". I&nbsp; was raised on Agatha Christie novels, so think of me as an early 20th century Brit. Herm knows, I argued with them about how to spell Grey Lady.<BR></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color=#006600 size=2>joe<BR><BR></FONT>"Norma Lewis" &lt;***@adelphia.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR><ZETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZETA content="MSHTML 6.00.2743.600" name="GENERATOR">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<DIV><FONT size=2>That is the spelling I use as well,&nbsp; I notice they are dropping ending extra letter L&nbsp;&nbsp;( Thoughtfull)&nbsp;&nbsp; Hermine and I learned the same spelling.&nbsp; My husband is my spell check when he is at home.&nbsp; Soon we will abbrev. everything. Norma </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=***@endangeredspecies.com href="mailto:***@endangeredspecies.com">hermine</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=***@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:***@yahoogroups.com">***@yahoogroups.com</A> ; <A title=***@yahoogroups.com href="mailto:***@yahoogroups.com">***@yahoogroups.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 27, 2004 10:01 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3>At 10:00 AM 8/27/04, Russ wrote:<BR><BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=2>I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'.&nbsp; Makes me feel so English, so European.&nbsp; And part<BR>of me, after all, is.&nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT size=3>&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT size=2>I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos or have dogs that pull up and run away<BR>with my Sansevierias.<BR></FONT><FONT size=3>&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT size=2>Russ.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3>I had a third grate teacher who used these spellings and crossed her sevens. as far as i know, she was irish and born in Brooklyn, so i have no idea where this came from. <BR><BR>my dogs do not pull up sansevierias, i had some young ones out, the kind who grab things and run, so you will run after them.<BR><BR>but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.<BR><BR>hermine</FONT> <BR><BR><T
T>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><TT>To Post a message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; ***@eGroups.com<BR>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: Sansevierias-***@eGroups.com</TT> <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Norma Lewis
2004-08-27 22:17:09 UTC
Permalink
I do also, first the change all the plant names, now they are attacking the spelling. Why don't they just leave things alone. ' Gray Lady'
But that it is the wayh Colour is spelled. Sterns books says as long as we can understand each other, anything goes. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


I kept thinking,"how else CAN you spell it?". I was raised on Agatha Christie novels, so think of me as an early 20th century Brit. Herm knows, I argued with them about how to spell Grey Lady.
joe

"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:


That is the spelling I use as well, I notice they are dropping ending extra letter L ( Thoughtfull) Hermine and I learned the same spelling. My husband is my spell check when he is at home. Soon we will abbrev. everything. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


At 10:00 AM 8/27/04, Russ wrote:


I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'. Makes me feel so English, so European. And part
of me, after all, is.

I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos or have dogs that pull up and run away
with my Sansevierias.

Russ.
I had a third grate teacher who used these spellings and crossed her sevens. as far as i know, she was irish and born in Brooklyn, so i have no idea where this came from.

my dogs do not pull up sansevierias, i had some young ones out, the kind who grab things and run, so you will run after them.

but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.

hermine

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John Gamesby
2004-08-27 22:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi Norma,
No Grey the colour is spelt GREY not gray.
Or am I reading this wrong and you mean it is spelt grey then you are correct.
Confusing then you should be, as I am.

John


I do also, first the change all the plant names, now they are attacking the spelling. Why don't they just leave things alone. ' Gray Lady'
But that it is the wayh Colour is spelled. Sterns books says as long as we can understand each other, anything goes. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


I kept thinking,"how else CAN you spell it?". I was raised on Agatha Christie novels, so think of me as an early 20th century Brit. Herm knows, I argued with them about how to spell Grey Lady.
joe

"Norma Lewis" <***@adelphia.net> wrote:


That is the spelling I use as well, I notice they are dropping ending extra letter L ( Thoughtfull) Hermine and I learned the same spelling. My husband is my spell check when he is at home. Soon we will abbrev. everything. Norma
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] Repotting, soil mix ingredients


At 10:00 AM 8/27/04, Russ wrote:


I think I'll adopt Hermine's spelling of the word 'colour'. Makes me feel so English, so European. And part
of me, after all, is.

I will use this spelling as long as I do not have to be bald, have tattoos or have dogs that pull up and run away
with my Sansevierias.

Russ.
I had a third grate teacher who used these spellings and crossed her sevens. as far as i know, she was irish and born in Brooklyn, so i have no idea where this came from.

my dogs do not pull up sansevierias, i had some young ones out, the kind who grab things and run, so you will run after them.

but you DO have to shave your head and get tattooed immediately.

hermine

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hermine
2004-08-27 23:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Lewis
I do also, first the change all the plant names, now they are attacking
the spelling. Why don't they just leave things alone. ' Gray Lady'
But that it is the wayh Colour is spelled. Sterns books says as long as
we can understand each other, anything goes. Norma
the language is going to h double hockey sticks in record time. at one time
we had freeform spelling and this was during the age of Shakespeare. now we
do not have Shakespeare nor do we have literacy even!

hermine
Norma Lewis
2004-08-28 01:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Okay, okay, I looked it up in the Dictionary. for the color of grey, it can and is accepted both ways. Chucky ducky says so, and he is a smarty pants like you. It really doesn't matter to me, I call her 'Gray Lady' in American way.
----- Original Message -----
From: hermine
To: ***@yahoogroups.com ; ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] what's in a name





I do also, first the change all the plant names, now they are attacking the spelling. Why don't they just leave things alone. ' Gray Lady'

But that it is the wayh Colour is spelled. Sterns books says as long as we can understand each other, anything goes. Norma


the language is going to h double hockey sticks in record time. at one time we had freeform spelling and this was during the age of Shakespeare. now we do not have Shakespeare nor do we have literacy even!

hermine

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K J Gray
2004-08-28 00:45:37 UTC
Permalink
on 8/27/04 6:58 PM, John Gamesby at ***@ntlworld.com wrote:

Hi Norma,
No Grey the colour is spelt GREY not gray.
Or am I reading this wrong and you mean it is spelt grey then you are
correct.
Confusing then you should be, as I am.

John


Then again, you could take the viewpoint of my dear departed very Irish
grandmother, who once informed me that Gray with an 'a' was the Irish way to
spell my last name, while Grey with an 'e' was the way the b____y English
spelled their last name ! She never did specify how one properly spelled
the word when it referred only to the colour.

Being Canadian, naturally I was taught to spell words the Canadian way,
which is essentially the British way, hence colour, not color, and so on.
It can be quite annoying sometimes to find I have to teach some spell
checkers how to spell Canadian english !

I don't think they even teach spelling in school anymore. They sure don't
seem to teach vocabulary. sigh.

sigh.. Karen
Norma Lewis
2004-08-28 01:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Re: [Sansevierias] what's in a nameJohn you know how bad my spelling is. Chucky says it is Grey or Gray both are acceptable. As kids we spelled it grey. The old English way, you mean to tell me you Britts are now coming around to our way, that we were right after all. LOL Why are you trying to confuse me. My dictionary shows both ways, and Greyhound is spelled with an E So there! I am using it in the context of spelling a color, and not a family name. Sorry about that. Norma

----- Original Message -----
From: K J Gray
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] what's in a name


on 8/27/04 6:58 PM, John Gamesby at ***@ntlworld.com wrote:


Hi Norma,
No Grey the colour is spelt GREY not gray.
Or am I reading this wrong and you mean it is spelt grey then you are correct.
Confusing then you should be, as I am.

John



Then again, you could take the viewpoint of my dear departed very Irish grandmother, who once informed me that Gray with an 'a' was the Irish way to spell my last name, while Grey with an 'e' was the way the b____y English spelled their last name ! She never did specify how one properly spelled the word when it referred only to the colour.

Being Canadian, naturally I was taught to spell words the Canadian way, which is essentially the British way, hence colour, not color, and so on. It can be quite annoying sometimes to find I have to teach some spell checkers how to spell Canadian english !

I don't think they even teach spelling in school anymore. They sure don't seem to teach vocabulary. sigh.

sigh.. Karen

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K J Gray
2004-08-28 02:17:38 UTC
Permalink
on 8/27/04 9:07 PM, Norma Lewis at ***@adelphia.net wrote:

John you know how bad my spelling is. Chucky says it is Grey or Gray both
are acceptable. As kids we spelled it grey. The old English way, you mean
to tell me you Britts are now coming around to our way, that we were right
after all. LOL Why are you trying to confuse me. My dictionary shows
both ways, and Greyhound is spelled with an E So there! I am using it in
the context of spelling a color, and not a family name. Sorry about that.
Norma

Aw, shucks Norma, I was only joshing :)). That same grandmother held to
an assortment of strange, even quaint Victorian values. For example, if a
woman was with child, one should never ever mention the word 'pregnant', as
it was much too vulgar, and the woman had a duty not to appear in public
once her condition could no longer be effectively disguised. Needless to
say, she was often disappointed in the so called younger generation on these
points too. I must say I'm really enjoying this group.

Karen

Russ
2004-08-28 01:42:52 UTC
Permalink
John, is 'spelt' a word over there? Maybe it is over here.
But I never seen it.
Russ

OK, no more digressing.
Russ
2004-08-28 01:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Colour me bald, and colour me colourful.
Russ
Joe Flaherty
2004-08-28 01:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Is 'spelt' not a word here? You all are going to have me wondering if I'm even
worse than I thought, and that was pretty bad!
joe


"Russ" <***@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

John, is 'spelt' a word over there? Maybe it is over here.
But I never seen it.
Russ

OK, no more digressing.





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Norma Lewis
2004-08-28 02:37:32 UTC
Permalink
spelled, I think, my hands go faster than my mind. Sorry
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Flaherty
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Sansevierias] what's in a name


Is 'spelt' not a word here? You all are going to have me wondering if I'm even
worse than I thought, and that was pretty bad!
joe


"Russ" <***@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

John, is 'spelt' a word over there? Maybe it is over here.
But I never seen it.
Russ

OK, no more digressing.





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